Another contribution on the dual diagnosis issue
Quote:
"Hi to all the Fellas & more importantly hi to all the freethinkers who do want to attain sobriety and a wellness of being in an increasingly hostile environment in Alcoholics Anonymous. This is why I write today.
As has been illustrated over the last few weeks the key issue that separates the Cult - a collective term used to determine a group of individual AA Meetings who exhibit rhetoric of Literalism in the reading of the ‘Big Book’, a policy of the non-using of medication and most fun is the ascension of the AA Sponsor (A term that doesn’t appear in the Big Book) to the level of demigod.
These principal ideas have resulted in the AA message of helping people to stop drinking, seems to be lost by the cult, their literalism is more akin to Chairman Mao’s ‘Little Red Book’. I’m forever seeing newcomers come into a meeting big Book in hand as if they were in possession of a magical talisman to ward off the evil spirits. If that superstition actually worked I’d be walking around with a library of various books under my arm.
Still this is the flavour of AA at this time; superstitions instead of spirituality, witchdoctor medicine and lay sponsors checking the new-comers financial status as a part of the Cult’s Step Four, absolutely ludicrous and ultimately dangerous to AA’s profile in the rest of society.
So here is why I’ve written, I’m a member of AA and a member of DRA (Dual Recovery Anonymous), I have a Dual Diagnosis and it’s the usual AA horror story guru telling me that medicine is not an option. A position which I find baffling, especially when Tradition 10, P133 of the Big Book as well as Chapter five is read as it is written; my point is when these criminals (impersonating a doctor is a crime) advise newcomers that they may be suffering from problems other than Alcohol they are in fact openly wounded AA, its profile and it’s respect that it has garnered over the past seventy years.
AAcultwatch seriously needs to pat their selves on the back; you fellas are obviously being read by at least the Sidcup wing of the cult!! I’ll explain why….
Well a couple of weeks ago there’s this member and he’s struggled in AA for years, as I am a member of DRA as well, I told him about my home group, what DRA was all about, it practices the Steps and Traditions but most importantly it does not offer nor suggest the effectiveness/ineffectiveness of medications, psychotherapy, counselling and the like. It is a self-help group to help one another, primarily and also it is a perfect place to open up about the difficulties you may be finding in other support groups.
So this guy I thought would really benefit from DRA; anyway that was before Christmas, I bumped into him for the first time the day before yesterday, he’s a Sidcup boy through and through, speaks only pre-approved scripts and was staring at me throughout the meeting.
Then it happened the arrival of a fairy tale logic that bemuses me as much as it humours me. You see he was giving it large about how he was Dual Diagnosis but… Here comes the sleight of hand that would make Paul Daniels himself blush; he continued by arguing that Alcohol abuse was what had made him Dually Diagnosed. This has obviously being pre-approved from the various aspects of the steerage committee, so be warned the Cult Strikes Back, and they are going for broke with the most spurious of logic that you will ever find. They can now boast that not only can they recover you from Alcoholism, after all they are recovered Alcoholics but now they can treat any long term psychological difficulties that was merely induced by years of drug and alcohol abuse, didn’t specify about psychological distress induced at birth, or through childhood? No doubt those ‘Sidcupians’ can induce recoveries in everything. I’m being glib about a subject that truly is; A MATTER OF LIFE & DEATH!!!; Year in, year out another poor soul dies from poor information, and dogmatic definitions upon what u should/shouldn’t be doing.
In conclusion I’d just like to make it clear that whether a person is born with mental/emotional problem or if they are experiencing said personal distress as a direct result of year of drink/drug abuse, you need to seek professional help, that’s the starting point, there are a number of well respected charities that offer counselling and such, both AA and DRA are another aspect to your recovery and by that I personally am not referring to the narrow minded its all in ‘The Big Book’ approach, I truly believe that if u generally want to recover there is no singular way to achieve it, I wish everyone well on their respective journeys.
All the best you lot,
You are hurting them,
Keep up the good,
…."
20/12/08
The dual diagnosis/prescribed medication issue – some contributions (edited) from a member who knows what they’re talking about
"I am so grateful to have found you. I have a dual diagnosis and have had a several difficulties with Vision for You since I have come into recovery. I was directly discriminated at a Vision for You meeting in …….. for openly sharing about dual diagnosis issues and my use of psychiatric medication. I did not know at the time that Vision for You were operating under the radar as a separate entity and I was very distressed as I was very vulnerable at the time. Vision for You activists are openly hostile to me. Dually diagnosed alcoholics have left AA in South East London and set up as part of Dual Recovery Anonymous because of Twelve Step bullying. This has also happened in mid Wales. I have many, many thoughts about this issue and want to get more involved. There are other legal concerns which may not be known about. For example the implications of the 1995 Disability Discrimination Act."
"Dear …
Thank you for your mail. We're very happy to hear from you and equally unhappy to hear about your experiences with the Visions groups. Firstly we would be quite prepared to put details of the Dual Recovery Anonymous groups on our website together with any links (if they have a website themselves). We hope that this will prove of assistance to you and to others in a similar position. Our primary concern is that when people come to us for help in AA they are treated with the respect that they deserve. If AA cannot provide that then we would certainly support any initiatives that ensure that their needs are met elsewhere. Obviously our efforts are aimed in the direction of bringing an end to this appalling behaviour on the part of the cult groups within AA and that finally no discrimination of any kind is offered to anyone who attends any AA meeting. After all - the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
We're very interested to hear about the Disability Discrimination Act. Although we were aware of its existence we were not so conversant with its implications. . We would be very interested in the possibility of publishing an article on the subject, ie the scope of the Act and its potential implications for AA if you would be prepared to expend the time in composing one. This also could be published on our website. If there is the possibility that the cult's conduct towards members who are dual diagnosis may fall within the scope of the Act then this may represent a major advance in forcing them to desist from their behaviour. We are of the view, and have been for some time, that it lies outside the power of the various service structures within AA (including the Trustees of the General Service Board) to curtail these individuals' and groups' activities; they have no regulatory authority. For that matter, reasoned argument and moral pressure seem equally ineffective. Therefore we believe that finally only legal remedies may be sufficient to bring their conduct to an end."
"DRA
Dual Recovery Anonymous is small scale at the moment in the UK as we have only just begun. However, we are part of an international fellowship which is well established. Currently we have four London meetings and we are getting enquiries from, and giving support to, dual diagnosis people all over the UK. We are growing and developing. There is no UK based website yet but the DRA website address is on the pamphlet which I have attached. All the meetings and contact details are there on the pamphlet.
Psychiatric medication and the Disability Discrimination Act
I have spoken to the Equalities Commission. They are of the view that in AA and NA the psychiatric medication issue is a concern in relation to the Disability Discrimination Act as it directly relates to the accessibility of both programs to dually diagnosed alcoholics and addicts. We need more detailed advice though.
You have to remember that psychiatrists often have a different view when it comes to patients with a dual diagnosis. Psychiatrists are generally concerned about dually diagnosed alcoholics and addicts (as opposed to those with a single or primary illness of addiction or alcoholism) coming up against anti-medication attitudes in AA and NA because these views are a direct risk to people with a dual diagnosis. In my experience, a common criticism voiced by psychiatrists is that AA/NA people are experts on alcoholism/addiction but they should stay out of psychiatric territory but that they often don't. What this means for dually diagnosed addicts and alcoholics is that psychiatry often puts up barriers to people going into AA/NA. Currently, there is justification for psychiatrists' concern in relation to both fellowships.
Dual diagnosis issues generally
In NA the issues pan out differently and they don't appear to have a fundamentalist problem but there is ignorance and bullying. The NA literature is dreadful and in my opinion it takes this ridiculous relativistic stance which condones the bullying. In AA the official guidance is virtually spot on but there is a real problem with religious nutters. My concern is that the cults pollute the culture over dual diagnosis issues and prevent learning. One such example is the phrase 'secondary illness' to describe dual diagnosis, I am absolutely convinced this phrase has carried across into mainstream usage from Vision. Secondary illness means secondary mental illness caused by alcoholism/drug addiction. Most dual diagnosis people do not have secondary mental illness but some do (alcoholic psychosis, drug induced psychosis). Most dually diagnosed people have two primary illnesses (psychiatric illness and addiction). It is very dangerous for a person who does not have a secondary illness to believe they have. Dually diagnosed people can come to believe that they can arrest their psychiatric illness by working the 12 Step programme and that they no longer need psychiatry or psychiatric medication. They can also come to believe that subsequent bipolar or schizophrenic episodes are a result of their failure to work the 12 Step Programme. Even people with secondary mental illness need psychiatric treatment. The phrase 'secondary illness' as it is used currently in AA is a breach of the traditions and it alarms me."
"Dear …..
Thank you for your very helpful mail. We've checked through both the 1995 and 2005 Acts. As usual it's pretty heavy going but in our view the Act clearly would include AA within its scope and we believe that refusing dual diagnosis individuals exactly the same rights as non dual individuals clearly is in breach of its terms. At the very least it would serve to require those who claim that those suffering from a "mental disability" and who are on prescribed medication are necessarily "unnsponsorable" - or will not be able to recover in AA - to justify their position (which we think they will find impossible to do).
Firstly: the only requirement for membership of AA is a desire to stop drinking. There is no mention of any other condition or qualification attached to this right. Secondly as far as we are aware there are only two conditions to be met before proceeding with the 12 Step recovery programme: "If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it - then you are ready to take certain steps." (p. 58 BB) Further: "There are those too who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest." (p. 58 BB) From these it would seem that it is not our business to make any kind of judgement with regard to another person's capacity to proceed with the programme - the decision lies with them. On the other hand of course, any member may decide they don't want to sponsor someone for any reason that they like. It would be ridiculous to contemplate people being obliged to sponsor others but we don't think that the Acts have that particular situation in mind. From our point of view the danger with the Visions cult is that it is seeking to institutionalise a perspective on medication which AA as such doesn't hold, nor is based on any kind of hard evidence ie. that dual diagnosis people cannot recover whilst on medication, or that medication is a significant obstacle to that recovery. It is in this respect that we believe that the Act will have some impact.
We look forward to hearing from you in the future
Regards
The Fellas"
Dual Recovery Anonymous details
"Dual Recovery Anonymous is a 12-step programme based on the principles of the twelve steps and the experience of men and women in recovery with a Dual Diagnosis. The DRA programme helps us to recover from both our addiction and our emotional or mental illness by focusing on relapse prevention and actively improving the quality of our lives. In a community of mutual support we learn to avoid the risks that lead back to alcohol and drug use as well as reducing the symptoms of our emotional or mental illness."
For UK meeting details click here
Additionally:
Dear Fellas,
Most dually diagnosed alcoholics need psychiatric medication permanently because illnesses like bipolar and schizophrenia are just as deadly and severe as alcoholism but unlike alcoholism they are not arrestable through the Twelve Step programme. All this striving for a medication free existence is pointless, dangerous and deeply offensive and above all it has nothing whatsoever to do with alcoholism or Alcoholics Anonymous.
Generally, in the NHS GPs treat what are deemed to be 'Common Mental Health Problems’; these are conditions like mild to moderate depression, anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorder. These conditions are distressing and disabling and need treatment in terms of psychiatric medication but they are generally not life threatening. However when the GP sees someone deteriorating he or she will refer up to secondary psychiatric services and this is where the more severe conditions like bipolar, schizophrenia, major depression and personality disorders are treated. However, people pass from GPs to psychiatrists and back again to GPs depending on the severity of their episodes and their stability.
Regards
…..
6/12/08
Some correspondence with an EX-member of Alcoholics Anonymous
"Thank you for the article about the case of suicides in AA in London. I am dual diagnosis and have been at the receiving end of discrimination as far as prescribed medication is concerned for the treatment of bipolar disorder. I am disgusted that this is still going on and it is in my opinion time that the powers that be intervened before other people have to suffer what I and other people have had to go through. I’m no longer in AA because I felt that nothing was changing and I was a lonely voice in an organisation that was full of uneducated idiots. I do not intend now or ever to go back to AA. I really do think it is time that this travesty was put out in to the wider public domain. The general public should be informed about what is going in this so-called fellowship. I believe the only way this will finally stop, is if these people are exposed for the dangerous ignorant people they are. Please pass my e-mail address to other people who have experienced the same discrimination I have."
"Dear A,
Thank you for your email. We're sorry to hear about your experience. As we hope you know the AA guidelines about members giving advice or putting any kind of pressure on people to discontinue medication that has been prescribed for them is very clear - we're not qualified and we shouldn't. However as you are obviously aware some people within AA, because of their dogmatic prejudices, make the decision to ignore that advice and consequently cause completely unnecessary suffering and indeed death because of their stupidity. By setting up the website we have succeeded in bringing this into the public domain since we believe that the general public have a right to know what is going on in AA - we are an anonymous organisation, not a secret one - and we are accountable for our actions to those that we are supposed to be helping. We fully expect that it is simply a matter of time before this problem is taken up by the public authorities and we will co-operate and assist any investigation carried out into the conduct of certain groups and individuals using AA for their own agenda. Obviously we respect your right to choose no longer to attend AA and hope that you remain well.
Regards
The Fellas"
"Thank you so much for getting back to me. I really wish I had not seen that e-mail about suicides of AA members from London meetings. I have text two friends of mine from the fellowship I still keep in contact with one has decided he wants no more to do with me. The other would only dictate to me parts of the big book. This is what I am experiencing from people. They don’t want to know, AA is never going to change unless disgruntled members take action but that I believe is never going to happen. Surely in the case of the suicide an investigation by the medical profession must have taken place. Perhaps it is about time that the Police were informed. AA cult watch is never going to change anything unless there is proper action by force, and by using the law if necessary. Does the AA group know about AA cult watch - surely they must be able to stamp out this abuse, perhaps the press would like to hear about these abuses of vulnerable people because that is what this is. By a wall of silence and sticking their heads in the sand and pretending this is not going on they are just as guilty as the people who make the comment in the first place. Please pass my name and e-mail address I do not want to remain anonymous. Because that is another way I believe AA members get away with as much as they do. Because they hide behind this. "
So there you have it - the voice of experience! And another failure on our part to protect those who come to us for help. Instead of compassion they are greeted with dogmatism, insensitivity and ignorance. Instead of helping to alleviate their suffering the cult groups with their blinkered VISION simply aggravate their problems.
Fortunately we are aware that groups are being set up to provide an alternative to AA for people with dual diagnosis. In the absence of any serious action on the part of the Fellowship to deal with this growing menace to our society we can only applaud this display of initiative. Hopefully we will be able to provide information on these shortly. If anyone wishes to get into contact with A then by all means send your email address to us and we will pass it on to them.
The Fellas
