This section is primarily intended for contributions we receive from the USA
29/11/09
Some observations on the "Recovery Business"
"While your current plague of 'AA' dog and pony shows does involve money as a motive, many such groups don't. Prestige, authority, a sincere belief that the 'right kind' of AA needs to be carried to the heathen; these may be more common, and even more insidious.
'Joe and Charlie' acolytes and Pacific Group clones are recruited face to face more often than at 'shows.' Our local Big Book Comes Alive folks make a great to-do about not being paid (they sell and raffle CDs of AA swamis instead).
Whether they go into the biz or not, attendees at these events are lead to believe that there is a 'secret sauce' version of AA which is somehow more real or 'better than' the real article. The AA they advocate is always one that involves charismatic leadership, abusive styles of sponsorship, overt religiosity and requirements for conformity and obedience from the newcomer.
This is the AA of pre-Tradition power-drivers like Clarence S. of Cleveland, not the post-Tradition AA formed to avoid the tragic errors of such groups."
(as usual our thanks to this AA member for their contribution)
18/10/09
A few observations from the States
Pacific Group:
"The anti-medication madness has little support locally, when mentioned it is usually decried. Out here the notion is ascribed to Clancy and his 'Pacific Group' in Southern CA. This group is notorious for abusive sponsorship and groupthink. Jackets and ties/skirts or dresses are required for meeting attendance, gurus have scores of sponsees who dress alike and perform chores for sponsors etc. etc."
The 'Oxford Group' and 'Moral Re-Armament':
"Another recommendation. For those who only know of the Oxford Group through AA, Tom Driberg's expose The Mystery of Moral Re-Armament is a must. Rereading it lately, I find I missed Driberg's repeated hints that Frank Buchman was a self-hating homosexual. Also, no one approaching the OG/MRA would have had any reason to expect any help for alcoholics. MRA was strictly concerned with money property and prestige. Nowadays, the latest incarnation of MRA takes responsibility for founding AA, and claims NOT to be a religious organization!"
Gresham's Law
"......Gresham's Law & Alcoholics Anonymous article, by Tom P. senior, 1974, may be a primary source for the success claims nonsense. Certainly Mr P is certain that HIS new program does it the 'right way.' I wrote to them, and after 50 years in existence, All Addicts Anonymous doesn't even try to maintain a meeting list. The magic formula only seems to work in their treatment center/commune/work camp in upstate New York."
"......Gresham's Law & Alcoholics Anonymous article, by Tom P. senior, 1974, may be a primary source for the success claims nonsense. Certainly Mr P is certain that HIS new program does it the 'right way.' I wrote to them, and after 50 years in existence, All Addicts Anonymous doesn't even try to maintain a meeting list. The magic formula only seems to work in their treatment center/commune/work camp in upstate New York."
Not God:
"Ernest Kurtz's history, published variously as Not God, and AA the Story, alludes to a long standing strain between OG dominated 'Akron' AA and 'New York' AA, he even identifies geographical zones associated with each."
Joe and Charlie [well known circuit speakers]:
"Your own 'Enquiry into Primary Purpose/Back to Basics' paper [see site] identifies Joe and Charlie as wellsprings of cultishness. They seem to link quite directly to 'Back to Basics.' ...."
Note: "The excellent 'An Enquiry Into...' needs a correction. The author confuses the First ed. Big Book with the pre-publication multilith version. This, with its intensely prescriptive and religious language, is widely promoted as somehow 'purer' or 'realer' than the actual Big Book. Of course the multilith was rejected by the original membership until modified to the form we know."
'The Pod People':
"....near San Francisco, we have another cultish subgroup called the 'pod people' (Invasion of the Body Snatchers and all that) This group defines the 'program' as consisting of a daily written 10th step and not much else. Members avoid non-pod meetings, poach for sponsees, and speak in an annoyingly uniform style--even imitating the grating giggle of their original guru. There are many rumors of sexual misdeeds. Sponsors require their sponsees to PAY to receive meditation mantras from Transcendental Meditation (and receive kickbacks)."
Some features of the cult operation in the US:
"Promotion of fundamentalist Christianity (this may be more overt in the US).
Distorting AA history to attempt to whitewash the Oxford Group.
Promoting compulsory (and usually abusive) sponsorship.
Obsessive reading of 9th step 'promises' at every meeting."
Finally, our contributor comments: "I had my 21st birthday last month. Over the last 5-10 years I have been increasingly bothered by odd new mannerisms posing as 'old' or 'real' AA. As an atheist, I tended to downplay my discomfort as hypersensitivity, and the cultishness as part of the general rise of the religious right in the US. Examining the 'Joe and Charlie' and 'Back to Basics' material convinced me that a quasi-organized movement to suborn AA was in action."
03/02/09
A marathon discussion post on the Midtown problem
This one will need a lot of stamina - and a very resilient stomach - but a scan through will give you the general idea - this is the problem - guess what the solution is??
You are!!
17/01/09
A communication from the USA (and our response) Look for the similarities!
“Thanks for the fast and very informative response! I will follow up with a more detailed look at your site. It sounds like there is a lot of information on the site, and I'm looking forward to taking a look.
And, there is a "Joys of Recovery" meeting about 20 minutes from my house. I was a member there about 5-6 years ago. Then, a branch of their group started about 2 minutes from my house. The name of that group is "A Vision For You".
I was a member of AA for 14 years. About 7 years ago I made a friend with someone that I met in AA. He just moved to my city from Hawaii, and he was a "12 step nazi", so to speak. My new friend and I would go out and look for new meetings to go to and meet new people. That's when we stumbled upon the "Joys of Recovery" meeting. There was something always not quite right with the group, and I could never put my finger on it. But my new friend loved it because they stressed the importance of working the steps more than the other groups. Being that my friend had more sobriety than me, and I respected his sobriety (at the time), I started to attend these meetings with him. In a matter of weeks all of our friends from our regular group began to attend the "Joys" meeting. In a matter of no time we were all being sponsored by "Joys" sponsors.
My eyes finally opened to the weirdness of the group and I ran like hell. They would tell me not to talk to girls, call my sponsor everyday, not to go on the computer past 10:00pm (I was 27 years old at the time), not to talk to my best friend, go to a meeting everyday, get a newcomers number everyday and call them, stop taking medication (if you are on it), make their group my home group, and attend all their meetings every week.
After I left it was not long before the rest off my friends started to leave. One of them held on till almost a year later, but finally came to his senses. They now run the "Vision" group that is close to my house. It is still as clicky as the "Joys" group but not as weird. I do not attend AA anymore as a result of the negative side effects of parts of the program, that AA chooses not to look at.
Because of my time spent in AA and all the stuff I've seen in the program, it's made me do my research online. I've found a HUGE number of people that have had bad experiences with the program. Most of the bad experiences are very similar to mine. It has even pushed me to obtain a degree in psychology, which I never thought I would want to pursue. I have even in the past despised people that had a career in this field.
I know that you are current members of AA, and I am in no way bashing you for that. Just because I do not agree with the program in no way effects how I interact with its members. I encourage you to continue in your battle, in hopes that it opens eyes to the dangers of getting involved in a group that will not allow you to think for yourself. Good luck!
Michael T” (full name supplied in original email)
Our response:
“Dear Michael,
Glad that we could be of help. Your description of your encounter with the Joys is identical to their activities in the UK. We're sorry to hear that the experience put you off AA - that's essentially what we're trying to remedy with the site. We're also aware of the large amount of hostility that exists against AA. We believe that such a negative commentary can no longer be "written off" by the Fellowship as merely "resentments" on the part of disgruntled ex members. We're not trying to argue that it's all down to the cult but they certainly don't help the Fellowship as a whole make a contribution to alleviating human suffering - and that is what we're supposed to be doing - not causing more. We're also glad to hear that you are prospering. We'll put up your contribution on the site (name abbreviated as usual) but we'll be interested to hear if we get any more reactions from the States.
Cheers
The Fellas"
Glad that we could be of help. Your description of your encounter with the Joys is identical to their activities in the UK. We're sorry to hear that the experience put you off AA - that's essentially what we're trying to remedy with the site. We're also aware of the large amount of hostility that exists against AA. We believe that such a negative commentary can no longer be "written off" by the Fellowship as merely "resentments" on the part of disgruntled ex members. We're not trying to argue that it's all down to the cult but they certainly don't help the Fellowship as a whole make a contribution to alleviating human suffering - and that is what we're supposed to be doing - not causing more. We're also glad to hear that you are prospering. We'll put up your contribution on the site (name abbreviated as usual) but we'll be interested to hear if we get any more reactions from the States.
Cheers
The Fellas"
