21/11/09
Bournemouth Road to Recovery
It would seem that this cult group continues in its attempts to gain access to an AA Intergroup - any AA Intergroup! At a recent Bournemouth Intergroup meeting the group requested probationary membership lasting one year. They were asked if they had any connection with the notorious Plymouth Road to Recovery cult group to which the reply was "No". As our correspondent puts it: "First thing out of the mouth was a lie" - so no change there then! No decision has been made, and of course the choice lies with the AA members in that area - but if the West Kent experience is anything to go by, once the cult have got a foothold they won't be satisfied until they control your Intergroup - something to think about perhaps!!
Cheers
The Fellas
07/11/09
Road to Recovery Plymouth Cult group – not so happy, joyous and free these days?
The word is that all is not well in Happy Land. Apparently there has been something of a breakout amongst “Satan's Rejects” (and before you all get into a sweat about this choice of phrase these are not our words but those of the inestimable Little Wayne in his latest (recycled) article on the R2R website). Here he extols the virtues of sponsorship and even an admission of his own imperfection: “ I have never claimed to be humble nor perfect and I often fail in living up to the ideals that others seem to practice so well”. This might be a most encouraging sign if voiced by another but we're not at all sure that this particular article is directed towards any other end than a bid to hang on to control of the group by plugging sponsorship (for those of you who are not in the know this cult group practises the “cascade style” of control – Wayne sponsors those who then sponsor those who then sponsor those etc. So if the dictum “Do exactly what your sponsor tells you” is followed, essentially this amounts to Wayne “running the whole show”). Unfortunately - or maybe fortunately - we shall have to see how things develop - it would seem that a significant number of the gang have decided they no longer want to follow Little Wayne's direction. From what we can gather some twenty odd members of this little fraternity have decided to split off and form their own group. The schism seems to have been prompted by a “unity” meeting held recently at the R2R venue. Here it was put to the assembled ranks that it was a case of 'fall into line and back the leader' or go for the 'high road' option – as already indicated a score or so decided upon the latter course, and so this “unity” meeting concluded with the resultant split (more of a “disunity” meeting by the sound of it. It's worth remembering that this is a group whose members regularly lecture the rest of us on the value of AA solidarity??) It is not in itself an unusual event for a cult group to split – usually the fracture occurs around a clash between “personalities” (for personalities read “egos”) and the disgruntled ones head off to start their own brand of madness (usually more extreme – hence our caution in defining this event as fortunate or otherwise). On this occasion, however, it would seem that the issue may revolve around what might be called a disparity between what is said, and what is practised – or as it is more simply put in AA “Someone who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk”. The danger of placing anyone on a pedestal is that sooner or later they topple off – and the higher the pedestal the bigger the drop, which, of course, illustrates the whole point of Tradition Twelve – the central importance of placing principles before personalities. But unfortunately the cult have not learnt this lesson, and through their advocacy of sponsorship idolatry fall easily and frequently into this trap.
Still – the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak ….. Man can but propose, only God may dispose.... To err is human, to forgive Divine....and finally … There but for the grace of God …..
And so, on that uncharacteristically spiritual and compassionate note (for us at least), we shall conclude
Cheers
The Fellas
22/10/09
'Shenanigans' in the South West
Quote:
"In my mind there is a bit of shenanigans going on in AA as to how to get certain conventions accepted into the Share magazine listed events and this is one of them. Let me try to explain without getting too tied up.
If a convention wants to be official AA it needs to be sponsored by an Intergroup or Region ( see the AA guideline 15 on Conventions). Some time ago the annual Bristol reunion folk ( now tied in very closely with RTR and assorted types) realised that they could not get the convention into Share as they were not Intergroup sponsored. The way to get around this has become that the people involved within Bristol ( Avon north and south Intergroups) get some of their members serving on Intergroup and lean on the Intergroup to accept a second Convention to be sponsored by Intergroup within the year's business of the area. Thus nowadays in the Bristol Area there are the old established Avon north and south mini conventions - plus the Bristol Reunion advertised in Share. As you are probably aware, the Bristol reunion is put on by the newcomers group and has been going for more than 20 years, always inviting Americans and charging a healthy fee – money always to the same address at Sally's flat in Bristol. The last time I looked the RTR and 1 other group were down on paper as sponsoring events in the area along with the Newcomers group. So you see the Intergroups have had their integrity compromised by these 3 groups.
Now K.... from Ringwood [AA] group used to live in Winchester, he still attends a lunchtime meeting on Tuesdays I think as he works in the town. He and others started this Winchester convention, which has American speaker worship as its guiding principle and £20 a go to get in. He has been cute enough to follow the Bristol lead. This year, for instance, the Northdown Intergroup sponsored (sic) the Winchester convention, a 3 day event, whilst also sponsoring the traditional mini in Basingstoke 3 months later. I noticed that the Winchester convention was highly publicised and tickets were being flogged at south coast meetings - alas the real Northdown mini convention in Basingstoke was quietly enjoyed by the sober AAs in the area without a ticket being offered anywhere. Both conventions were advertised in Share.
Just as in Bristol the Northdown Intergroup is in my opinion compromised by these crafty members messing about with the service structure for their own gain.
By the way, the Northdown mini was on 5th sept. The following day the Solent Intergroup Convention in Southampton was starring the great Clancy I, tickets were bountiful once again at south coast meetings and Wayne and his cohorts from Plymouth were in attendance. K.... has put several of his sponsees into Solent intergroup. thus compromising that one also. Guess what? RTR started the new meeting in Southampton around that time.
The linkage is fascinating."
(our thanks to the AA member who sent in this contribution)
09/10/09
Road to Recovery Cult group (Plymouth) move into the "Recovery Business"
Well they're at it again - breaking another Tradition - so what's new! It occurred to the aacultwatch team it would be easier to carry news of when the aforementioned group DID actually abide by the Traditions - it would save a lot of a time all round. But a little background first:
"The Recovery Business"
The recession may be biting hard but some sectors are flourishing - which brings us to: "The Recovery Business". By this we mean the increasing proliferation of "workshops" (non-AA events) run by various "personalities" (some travelling from as far afield as sunny California) spreading their views, opinions, theories, speculations, hypotheses, (even experience occasionally!) on whatever passing fad is currently preoccupying them, and then presenting these flights of fancy suitably packaged for the delectation of the "punters" ie. anyone who may be parted from their money. These little shindigs sometimes run for a whole weekend for those brave souls who are willing to pay to listen for that long to these largely unoriginal performances. The "gig" may include Power Point presentations for the more technologically sophisticated but will certainly include workbooks, worksheets etc all of which lends an air of authenticity to what is essentially a scam. It's easier to part someone from their cash if they wander (usually shell-shocked) from the venue with at least something to show for the "experience" other than a rictus grin, and a throbbing headache acquired from a massive overdose of "emotional froth". Now we have no real objection to an enterprising fellow making a buck or two, and let's face it there are considerably more than one "born every day" but in this instance the "target market" is composed mostly of newcomers to AA, and certainly members new to the recovery programme. These are more likely to be impressed by a slick performance and a well rehearsed delivery with standardised jokes flying from the lip with practised ease. If you've still suffering, with nerves jangling like taut banjo strings, and your emotions and life in tatters, wandering around the landscape like some refugee in a war zone then anyone who can string a few coherent sentences together must seem almost blessed with Divine omniscience. "Recycling" is the buzz word these days and that's about all you're likely to get at one of these workshops. But that said so will you at an AA meeting - nothing original there either - but there's one crucial difference. In the first you'll get parted from your dough in short order one way or the other - in the latter you'll get it for free, and without all the unnecessary trimmings.
It would seem that the Road to Recovery cult group (among others) is getting in on the act. For some considerable time now audio files by various notables (including overseas imports) have been available via their website but evidently this cult group has decided to move into "marketing" other events. These include the Bristol Reunion, which this year features a couple of speakers from the US (apparently one of whom is an " an ideal successor to Joe and Charlie"). It's not made entirely clear what constitutes "ideal" (given that the programme refers to "progress rather than perfection") but we have to assume that the guy turns in a good act (together with his humble assistant). Additionally the site advertises another "show" in Glasgow in 2010 featuring a VVVVVIP from LA, the Venerable C, who will be doing "a turn" in that fair city. There is no mention on the site (which incidentally carries the disclaimer "© Road to Recovery Group 2009. This site is not approved or endorsed by Alcoholics Anonymous. The views expressed belong solely to the individuals making them") that this is NOT an AA event nor for that matter is the "Relationships in Recovery" circus, which is similarly advertised on this cult website. But then (with a little more research) we come to the Glasgow extravaganza's sound system, which is being provided by an organisation called SoundsGood Media Productions, an outfit needless to say but we'll say it anyway, NOT associated with AA. We quote from the "About Us" section of their site:
"Sounds Good Media is a voluntary service staffed by members of 12 Step fellowships who give their time voluntarily to help themselves stay sober and help others to recover from alcoholism.
Sounds Good Media was set up by a small group of AA members involved in service who detected a great inconsistency in the quality of Public Address systens used at various AA conventions. Having detected this problem they decided to solve it by supplying AA with a reliable P.A. system. The next problem was how to fund th P.A. system. The solution for this was already at hand, record the meetings and sell the tapes. This also helped to solve another problem which was widespread (that of bad quality tapes or no taping of conventions at all - which left no archival record of previous members). So the idea was simply, supply P.A. system, record the meetings, sell the tapes and any excess money goes back into AA.
To comply with traditions a letter was sent to the World General Service Office in New York explaining the concept. The W.G.S.O. replied that AA could not accept money from outside organisations even though they are run by AA members. So Sounds Good couldn't give money to AA, but they could stop convention committes spending money on P.A's by supplying theirs free of charge. The only stipulation for this was that Sounds Good could sell tapes to fund the P.A. system. Due to public demand it was decided to expand the selection of tapes to include popular speakers from America etc. Again there was the problem of quality, so equipment was needed to 'clean' these tapes up. It soon became clear an office would be needed, so from humble beginnings our expansion had developed. This led to more volunteers joining, who used it as an aid to their recovery and went on to other things."
Now this may all be very worthy but in the end it amounts to what is technically known as a "lash up" ie. some way had to be devised to make it "look like" AA Traditions weren't being circumvented (we'll leave it to you to work out which ones) but fails utterly. In this particular instance we can't see what the problem is. The event itself is not AA sponsored and therefore does not have to abide by the Traditions. But even if it were an AA convention, workshop etc then this particular contrivance would still not solve the "problem". AA would be receiving a service for which it hadn't paid ie. a donation in kind rather than money (Incidentally, since when did it become a problem that there were no audio records, bad quality or otherwise, of speakers at a convention?) All sorts of difficulties arise here in connection with this issue - again we'll leave it to your ingenuity to discern what these might be. Finally there is reference to any "excess money" going back into AA, which seems to defeat entirely the purpose of the whole exercise. Whose money is this? If it's AA money then how can it "go back" to AA? If it's from Sounds Good Media profits then it's an outside donation - back to square one? Is it the copyright holder's money? Is it the publisher's money and so on and so forth? This situation illustrates perfectly why the Traditions exist, and why it's such a bad idea to try and "lawyer" your way round them.
Still it's been quite awhile - if ever - since the Road to Recovery cult group was an AA group running AA meetings and (as we mentioned above) we should really only be surprised when it does behave like one. But then Little Wayne (El Supremo) has as good as said so himself in his address to the faithful (available on an audio file from site): We quote:
"If you’re new or if you’re visiting this group – welcome. This group comes with a public health warning. Tonight you’re not in a meeting or mainstream meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. Tonight you are at the heart of Alcoholics Anonymous."
and who are we to argue with Little Wayne!
Now here's an idea, and we're not even going to plug our own recovery course outlined on the site - Oh damn! We did. Sorry! Instead of wandering off to one of these "workshops" or "conventions" or "Big Book Study Groups?" or "Newcomers?" meetings or "Beginners?" meetings or buying a CD produced by whoever is the latest flavour of the month, keep your money in your pocket and go to an AA meeting - a REAL one. There you will find some ordinary joe who will probably read something out of the Big Book, and then AA will do what it does best - plain alcoholics telling it the way it is - no frills - no "froth" - no charge!! You may well have to sit through the "Great Saga of the Washing machine Breaking Down and How the Repairman Didn't Turn Up But Even So I Didn't Pick Up a Drink" from time to time, and there may be some members who are seriously "off message" on that particular day; but that comes with the territory. But we think that's a small price to pay to avoid having to witness a carefully choreographed, marketing platform for "personalities" who seem to have an insatiable need (craving perhaps?) to have their egos massaged regularly whilst topping up their bank accounts. Even better the newcomer can - if she or he is so inclined - go online at the official AA website, and read the Big Book FOR FREE and maybe make up their own minds about what constitutes the recovery programme of AA and how they want - or don't want - to do it. Wow! That's soooo radical!!!
Cheerio
The Fellas
26/09/09
News from down Bournemouth way
Well! It seems that the recovery "business" is thriving - following our article on the goings-on in South East London Intergroup (West) a member sent in some more info - the franchise "Emotional Sobriety" appears to have opened up shop elsewhere in the UK - Bournemouth and Croydon amongst others (see quote below). Apart from Wayne B (not to be confused with Little Wayne from the Road to Recovery Cult group Plymouth) and Tina, Bob D (who has also done a turn at the Plymouth R2R roadshow) also features behind this. Indeed it would appear that the R2R gang are busily strengthening links both with the Pacific Group (about which there is already considerable controversy but we'll leave that for another day) as well as the Primary Purpose outfit (French branch). Apart from Bob (Specific Group?? Las Vegas) the R2R cult group has hosted no lesser a personage than the venerable Clancy I (Pacific Group LA US). Indeed so amicable are relations in this respect that the R2R website now carries a link to AA Los Angeles Central Office (which is handy if you're at a bit of a loss on a Monday night and need a meeting in LA). But to get back to the Emotional Sobriety scam - at first sight there seems to be little in common between the fliers advertising the SELIG event and the one in Bournemouth. However our eagle eyed correspondent noted that in both instances cheques for registration are payable to Friends of Bill W. As far as we are aware this is not an AA account, nor one run by the local intergroup - in fact it has no connection with AA at all. No attempt was made by the organiser of this event to inform the local intergroup of what was going on (even as a matter of courtesy). When he was challenged on the matter a number of fairly feeble rationalisations were offered (far too nauseating to post here). The organiser himself hails from the Poole Sunday night group and claims no connection with the Road to Recovery group (that is apart from having an predilection for ignoring inconvenient Traditions and a similar taste in speakers). Additionally a correspondent from the US sent us further information on the Emotional Sobriety racket:
Quote:
"More on Wayne 'n' Tina
Tina seems to be a recent addition, replacing the aging 'TJ M.' of Chicago.
A quick and dirty search finds multiple versions of the same flyer, with various 'sponsoring' entities identified, e.g.:
Friends of the Big Book (Washington DC)
Pinellas Beginners Group (Clearwater Florida)
Essex Beginners Group (Leigh on Sea, Essex)
Oxford area AA's (Summertown, Oxford)
Friends of Step'n Ahead (Dundee, Scotland)
Akron Beginners Group (Akron, Ohio)
How many of these are real AA groups is not clear.
The W 'n' T organization have two websites:
http://www.stepnahead.com/
and the more recent,
http://www.emotionalsobriety101.com/
"The Big Book Lives On" is their most common head line, but they also refer to the following (note trademarks): Step'n Ahead at The Last Mile® (98% Success!) and Step'n Ahead into Emotional Sobriety®.
They sell workbooks and promote like mad.
Warn everyone, thanks"
Tina seems to be a recent addition, replacing the aging 'TJ M.' of Chicago.
A quick and dirty search finds multiple versions of the same flyer, with various 'sponsoring' entities identified, e.g.:
Friends of the Big Book (Washington DC)
Pinellas Beginners Group (Clearwater Florida)
Essex Beginners Group (Leigh on Sea, Essex)
Oxford area AA's (Summertown, Oxford)
Friends of Step'n Ahead (Dundee, Scotland)
Akron Beginners Group (Akron, Ohio)
How many of these are real AA groups is not clear.
The W 'n' T organization have two websites:
http://www.stepnahead.com/
and the more recent,
http://www.emotionalsobriety101.com/
"The Big Book Lives On" is their most common head line, but they also refer to the following (note trademarks): Step'n Ahead at The Last Mile® (98% Success!) and Step'n Ahead into Emotional Sobriety®.
They sell workbooks and promote like mad.
Warn everyone, thanks"
It is worth nothing that the distinction between a speaker sharing at a meeting as an AA member or addressing an event to promote their "brand", is becoming increasingly blurred. Circuit speakers have been a feature for some time in the US (in breach of the Tradition relating to principles before personalities) and that unsavoury aspect of AA is now creeping into the UK (with CDs being offered for sale at some group venues). Generally AA workshops are open to all and there is no charge for admission. AA conventions may charge but this is done to cover the costs of accommodation and other accessory facilities, but should not charge AA members for access to any AA meeting held on the premises. Where charges are necessarily incurred for the use of facilities by AA members who are engaged in service activity it is generally the case that the service structure reimburses those members for any costs (this is done to ensure that no AA member is excluded from the possibility of participating in that structure due to financial constraints). In our view, and apart from those instances cited above, any event which charges admission is de facto NOT an AA gathering and should not be advertised at AA meetings, nor should their literature be displayed at AA meetings (contrary to the perverse guideline issued on this matter by the General Service Conference (What were they thinking! Or rather - Were they thinking at all!). We expect this trend to continue (for the foreseeable future) and would propose that the default position which might be adopted by the AA service structure is to treat any such events (ie. those that are not sponsored by an Intergroup, or where the group has not consulted with other groups as per Tradition Four) as non AA events and therefore not to be advertised within AA, and moreover that newer members should be notified of this. Furthermore we would propose that any new group set up should approach the relevant Intergroup or other groups in the locality prior to its formation and give a full account of its purposes, financing, affiliations etc - in other words establish its credentials as a genuine AA group. If it does so to the satisfaction of AA members then it may be admitted as an AA group together with inclusion in the local and national Where to Finds. If it fails to satisfy the membership of its credentials then the local groups may choose to exclude it. Additionally it may be the case that a group's continued participation in an Intergroup (and inclusion in the Where to Find) may be reviewed if it can be demonstrated to the local membership that its conduct is consistently and repeatedly in breach of AA traditions (not only in letter but in spirit) and that its conduct brings AA into serious disrepute (we would propose that such infractions include criminal activity, serious negligence - both of which may be actionable in law, together with that conduct which is in breach of human rights - freedom of association, freedom of religious (or not) worship, freedom of speech etc)These may be considered radical measures by some elements in the Fellowship but then doing nothing, as we have said before, is no longer an option.
Finally we display the Bournemouth flier with personal details blanked out (as usual) but in the light of the above we are reconsidering this policy. Given that these are non AA functions there seems to be no good reason why we should not include those details (and in full); it would seem to us that if a member has chosen to break their own anonymity in support of a non AA event then we are no longer under any moral obligation to do otherwise.
Cheers
The Fellas
21/09/09
From the South-West
And so the Road to Recovery Plymouth cult group saga rolls on... and on ... and on......
The word is (well - considerably more than one word to be honest but we'll spare you every inconsequential detail) that the cult group (together with its participating members) has withdrawn not only from Plymouth Intergroup but from South-West region, and is proposing to set up its own Intergroup. This would comprise four Plymouth groups (? - meetings surely!), two in Bournemouth and one in Penzance (we're aware of one Bournemouth group so we'd be interested to know which one is other - and some more details on the Penzance group?). This matter is being discussed by everybody and his dog as far as we can make out - GSO, various Intergroups in the area etc - and the emerging consensus (outside of the Road to Recovery cult group) is that it's an unnecessary duplication of the service structure. However this move on the part of the R2R group is simply an extension of a well established cult strategy - if you can't gain control of an AA group then you set you up a competitor in the same area; the last concern of the cult is AA unity, despite their protestations to the contrary. It is also debatable whether the new Intergroup would be an AA Intergroup at all. Certainly it would be set up in breach of AA Traditions (nothing new there then!) and would simply be using the AA name in order to continue to feed parasitically upon the Fellowship (Note: It's interesting to observe in this connection that when members of the aacultwatch team started to conduct research on the activities of the cult a fair proportion of this was done via the internet. We rapidly encountered a whole mass of websites (forums etc) on the WWW which were extremely hostile to AA, with contributors citing examples of poor treatment (religious dogmatism, anti medication policies, intrusive conduct ie. control freaks, segregation etc - all characteristics of cults) they had received on coming into contact with the fellowship. These accounts were largely quite unrecognisable to us as members of AA, and we were initially inclined to write these complaints off as mere "resentments" on the part of those who were disenchanted with the AA approach ("disease concept", religion, powerlessness, etc). But when we examined the conduct of the cult groups we saw a clear match between their methods and the complaints being voiced on the anti AA websites. We're not going to pretend that every ill can be blamed upon the cult but there is an extraordinary correlation between the cult's dogmatic and intrusive stance and the accusations levelled at AA as a whole, certainly as evidenced by this particular medium. It is clear that the cult groups and their methods are contributing significantly towards presenting AA in an extremely poor light - to this audience at least).
Anyway to get back to Plymouth R2R cult group.... As you may recall we thought it more likely that Little Wayne et al would continue to infest AA for as long as they could get away with it, play the victim role for all it was worth but finally pull back from the brink... going it alone. But contrary to our prediction, and as can be seen from the above, Little Wayne and gang are still set upon their course - to establish their own "brand" - but remain content for the time being to purloin the AA name for as long as it serves their purpose. However in one detail we were spot on - Little Wayne has managed to reprise his favourite role and complains that nobody in Region loves them any more (our irony) but expresses the view that Plymouth Intergroup "had now managed to get rid of Road to Recovery Group" an opinion that was repudiated by the Intergroup in their response, viz: this "was not accurate. Roads members had elected to leave, and it was never the intention of Plymouth to force them out".
Finally, and whichever way it happens, the exit or removal of the R2R cult group from Plymouth Intergroup can only be good for AA. The greater the distance put between these cult groups and the Fellowship, the more this will reduce the damage that is being done to the Fellowship and its programme by these extremists.
13/08/09
Intolerance & Disunity
One of the aacultwatch team came across this little gem recently - and we've taken the title straight off the cult website which published the article in question. It could almost become the cult "motto" - they are, after all, its most active proponents.
It is truly fascinating, and indeed never fails to take our breath away, the sheer arrogance and obtuseness of a cult member in full flight. Apparently this particular individual is feeling rather peeved because he's been on the receiving end of some somewhat impolitic behaviour on the part of a few AA members. This conduct might even be construed as abuse, but then abuse comes in many forms, doesn't it? For example, the widespread and systematic manipulation, brainwashing and outright intimidation of newcomers by members of the cult groups might be regarded in some quarters as a form of abuse - but we're not going to go into that here - the remainder of site contains ample evidence on this theme.
You'll no doubt be relieved to hear we're not going to give you a blow-by-blow account of the article; the original is easily viewed - but we suggest only by those with a strong stomach.
We should commence by saying that one of the favoured tactics of a cult member, when the pressure is starting to tell, is to go into "victim" mode. By playing the "underdog" - the "poor misunderstood fellow with only the best of intentions" - he may then go on to play the "wronged party" and thus move neatly into depicting everyone else at fault, "not working the programme" etc. Does this sound at all familiar to you? We think so.
So this particular plaint starts off with a lecture on the AA logo, the legacies it depicts, and an explanation of how the Traditions evolved. Now the favourite tradition of the cult is Tradition One, and our "poor innocent" goes on to quote this:
'Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon AA unity.'
Now there's no question that it's an important tradition but for the cult it serves another quite distinct purpose. It is frequently brandished by them as a means of stifling any dissenting voice, for this might "threaten" AA unity. It should be noted that this particular concern does not seem to worry the cult unduly when they happen to be that dissenting voice - Alexis K (cult member - Road to Recovery, Plymouth - and famous abuser of the General Secretary of Alcoholics Anonymous - see An Incident at Conference - for details) has expounded in detail on this one, and his verbal dexterity would be impressive, that is if one were easily impressed - and we're not. So any sign that AA members might dislike the way the cult conducts its business, or worse, dare to express that, shall we say, revulsion, then this tradition is immediately cited, and thus order (cult order) is restored. But the tradition that you rarely hear mentioned by the pointed headed ones is Tradition Four - see Big Book - because that really does cramp their style. Yet again an attempt has been made on their website to reinvent this Tradition - but yet again we're not easily impressed. But usually it's simpler to either misquote the tradition or ignore it completely - and the cult do both - it really doesn't serve their purposes.
The plaintiff then moves onto to describe in glowing terms his endeavours to go forth into heathen lands (ie AA meetings) to spread the "wonderful message of recovery that was so freely given to me". Now we're sure you're all thinking: "Well! He can't be such a bad lad, not with such fine intentions, and we do think you (aaccultwatch) are being a bit harsh on him". And you know what? We think you're right. In fact we'd go even further and say we KNOW you're right. And how do we know? Why! The fellow tells us so himself. We quote: "I believe that I am by nature a well-mannered, friendly, kind and gentle young man". Well there you go! How could such a fine fellow be subjected to such gross impoliteness as displayed by these nasty, nasty AA members. You should hang your heads in shame! Apparently some of these villains (a "small minority") would refuse "to shake my hand and even swear at me sometimes in a disgusting manner". Furthermore, the fellow goes on to explain - and we can even now see the look of innocent bewilderment spreading over his saintly face: "I was mortified by this as I had done nothing to harm these people by either word or deed". Well this is shocking stuff! We then discover that the reason for this hostile welcome is down to the home group attended by our budding martyr - the local cult group. Now the fellow becomes "baffled" for this is the very group which "showed me exactly what I needed to do to recover from alcoholism quickly and easily with loving kindness." (our emphasis – part of cult propaganda) He then goes on to describe in "clone speak" his recovery and the fact that he did not respond to these attacks in like fashion but instead would still offer "my hand to shake in fellowship, smile saying hello" etc ad nauseam. A little bit of reality kicks in at this point and the fellow admits to "curs[ing] them behind their back as I have got feelings you know, and we are a sensitive lot us alcoholics after all. But face to face I treat them with loving kindness in the hope that one day they will see me as the good-hearted man and alcoholic that I am...". Well, by now we've clearly identified who the goody is, and who the baddies are, haven't we! And we've discovered one of his priorities - image is all!
And now the denouement: "Sadly the day finally came when I felt unwelcome in an AA meeting for the first time because of the growing attacks against myself and my home group". A confrontation occurs and he claims that "most of the members there apologised and joined me in solidarity". Subsequently it seems that other members - presumably that ubiquitous "minority" (cult speak for the rest of AA) - join in the attack - and the "minority" view has its day, and our "good-hearted" fellow walks out of the meeting in disgust. The source of contention seems to be the cult group's "policy" on medication, which, like everything else it is involved in, is grossly intrusive. Apparently this group has its very own policy on the subject. Now please let us break the news to you - AA already has guidelines on the matter - and they've been around some time now. We don't really need any more. (The problem for the cult is that it has such a well proven track record of saying one thing in public and practising quite another in private (particularly with regard to the prescribed medication issue) that its primary mode of expression has become "the lie"; and the bigger the better. So it really is rather disingenuous to play the innocent when it comes to matters of fact and record)
To continue: it would seem that so devastated was this fellow by what had taken place, and even with his own reactions, that he rang up a "highly respected old-timer that was at that meeting" who in turn conveniently provided the "victim" with the justification and rationalisation that he so desperately needed. It turns out that our "well-mannered, friendly, kind and gentle young man" had retained his reputation and it was in fact the fault of all the others, those nasty, unkind, "off the programme" members at the meeting. He was told that he had "done nothing wrong" and that moreover he ("the highly respected old-timer") was surprised that it had taken me so long to react to all the attacks against me over the previous two years" - thus our almost flawless friend is rendered "reputation intacta".
So shaken was he that he even considered: "I felt that I couldn't go to any other meetings again apart from my home group". This is presented as some dreadful punishment inflicted upon this hapless and entirely blameless victim by the wicked AA members. But the fact is that most cult members are actively encouraged not to attend AA meetings for fear that they might be contaminated by the diluted and erroneous programme practised there. They only venture forth either in little bands on poaching missions, or on "missionary work" amongst the benighted heathen ie. AA. Unfortunately for us he has decided to continue with his selfless endeavours amongst us poor lost souls, and will continue to "do as much service as I can in line with the 12 traditions of AA" (that is except for Tradition Four)
The "victim" concludes with this little insight - and we do mean "little":
The "victim" concludes with this little insight - and we do mean "little":
"Coincidentally I have found that the small minority [there it is again] causing so much damage to unity within AA are often the ones that say that they don’t read the Big Book, bad-mouth the 12 Steps and have no interest or regard for the 12 Traditions. Bill W. was right when he said that if AA doesn’t survive it will be because it was destroyed from within."
So there you have it. The reason why we have gone into some length upon this particular individual is that he most clearly illustrates the mind set of the average cult member (those who are suitably on-message). He clearly establishes his credentials as the aggrieved party in the whole matter, and not once does it cross his mind that there might be some reason behind this antagonistic response to his presence in an AA meeting (we refer you to the Big Book - pp. 61-62). His image must be maintained at all times and and he wants to be thought of only in his own terms. Failure to comply to this particular perspective can only be because everyone else is "wrong" and he must be "right". Finally, anyone who fails to share this viewpoint is, of course, part of a "small minority", who are entirely bent upon damaging AA unity, and who know nothing of the the Big Book blah blah blah... Well, we can't speak for AA (since no one does) but we can speak for ourselves, and here's a little insight from us. The members of the aacultwatch team ARE well acquainted with the Big Book, DON'T bad-mouth the 12 Steps, and HAVE A CONSIDERABLE INTEREST AND REGARD for the 12 Traditions. The problem is that we have to deal with a "minority" of cult members, posing as AA members, whose ignorance of these areas is literally stupefying, and quite probably irremediable.
Finally might we suggest, and of course in all humility - a virtue seemingly lacking in our "victim" - that the next time he attends an AA meeting perhaps he would be well advised to keep the orifice beneath his nose tightly zipped, and the holes on either side of his head wide open - he might actually become acquainted with the recovery programme of Alcoholics Anonymous rather than the perversion put about by the cult.
And finally finally - if that fails to do the trick then might we suggest that he follow the advice of Little Wayne (Plymouth Road to Recovery cult group):
"....just walk on by because there is nothing here for you"
Cheerio
The Fellas
16/07/09
Plymouth Road to Recovery Cult group
The rumour is that Little Wayne (grand fromage par excellence) of the Road to Recovery cult group (Plymouth) has developed even more imperial ambitions. Seems that the current Plymouth Intergroup isn't big enough for just one "Little" ego and so he has proposed suitably grandiose and expansionist plans to form another intergroup (provisionally to be named Southwest Intergroup), which will comprise the seven Road to Recovery (cult) groups viz. Bournemouth/Poole/4 in Plymouth, and Penzance. Of course we've absolutely no idea who's going to run this three ring circus - but we could make some guesses! This breakaway formation is the result of Little Wayne's (and his cohorts) plans for the south west. It seems that the existing intergroup isn't quite "malleable" enough ie. not sufficiently open to "suggestions", and south west region is proving to be a tough nut to crack. For our part we applaud his "get up and go" - if only he'd "got up and gone"! But might we offer a few humble "suggestions" of our own? Why stop at an Intergroup? Why not your very own region? Or maybe even a different Fellowship? Or put it another way - why not take your business elsewhere and use a different name? And to make it really tidy take the rest of the cult groups in AA with you. Then Alcoholics Anonymous can get back to the business that it's really about - staying sober and helping the still suffering alcoholic - and no strings attached!
Cheers
The Fellas
12/06/09
Even more news from the South-West region
As promised we've yet more information concerning the Plymouth Road to Recovery (cult) group and its operations both within Plymouth Intergroup, and its (repeated) attempts to subvert AA South-West region.
We refer you to the Stop Press section of the site (together with older material held under Area News – South West) for more background on their activities.
The story so far:
Catherine C, a member of the Road to Recovery (cult) group, and sponsored by Wayne P himself (aka Little Wayne), has been attempting to get voted in as PI at South-West Region. Bless her, but she's had two goes at it so far and a third bash at it on Sunday 7th June at the Regional Assembly – but nothing doing. So why does Region have such an aversion to Catherine? Well it might be to do with the fact that she's a bit of a bully. She's not quite in Little Wayne's league, or for that matter Alexis K, or Jon F (see: An incident at Conference) but she's definitely working hard at acquiring all those 'qualities' that are necessary if you're going to make it to the top of a gang of thugs. Now, in Wayne, she has an excellent sponsor. He has performed supremely in the past in aggressive attacks (verbal so far) on the Chairman of that Region; clearly this is the “way forward” for the Road to Recovery cult group. Taking a leaf, or maybe even whole chapters from Little Wayne's book is a task that Catherine seems to have wholeheartedly embraced – no half measures here! And so Regional assemblies have been entertained (?) by her performances for a couple of years now. As one observer puts it:
“The gesturing and shouting etc does refer to Catherine C the young roadie who they wish to put in the PI chair at region. A couple of years back when she came as an observer she did a wobble from the floor when something proposed by her group people was opposed. Her behaviour was reprehensible and when she came back to region being proposed for the vacant PI position the assembly members voted no. Most sensible members felt that she would not be a suitable person to liaise with outside professionals based on her loose screw! She is now up for the 3rd time in just over a year for this unfulfilled position. She won't listen to the group conscience.
The RTR members keep saying that as Plymouth PI she was invited to go into Parliament with the national PI initiative. Begs the question who on earth asked her to do so?.
Obviously to me there is a Chelsea* link to the national PI committee.”
*This point makes reference to the Chelsea Intergroup which certainly historically, and it would appear contemporarily, has associations with the cult.
Now Little Wayne et al are getting very annoyed about not getting their own way, after all they have jumped up and down a lot, and screamed and screamed till they almost made themselves sick – but to no avail. So they've fallen back on proposing a vote of “no confidence” in the Chairman. And so from the Plymouth Intergroup meeting of 19 April 2009:
“Plymouth Intergroup Reps report April 2009
Intergroup took place on Sunday 19 April 2009 at 10am.
The meeting was opened with preamble and traditions. Previous intergroup minutes were adopted. Arash T withdrew his nomination for TLO.
Voting college: 10 GSRs
11 Intergroup Officers
A discussion was held around whether Plymouth Intergroup wanted its liaison officers to use business/contact cards when dealing with professionals. After a full debate, intergroup voted unanimously to use these cards. The content was then discussed, and the decision was made unanimously to include full name, position, Plymouth PO Box address (and the personal e mail and telephone number of the officer if they see fit).
The Plymouth GSRs read their group reports as did the intergroup officers.
The Plymouth convention is taking place on …....., Plymouth and is titled ‘Joy of Living’. The treasurer was reminded of the need to keep the convention float separate from AA money.
The liaison officers were reminded of the importance and expectation that they attend the Public Information sub committee every other month in order to share and generate ideas on the subject. It was also raised that there had been a meeting start up in Derriford Hospital** which may be carrying out PI work in the hospital. It was decided that the chairman should contact the group in question to see what was happening and involve the Health Liaison officer as well.
The Prison liaison officer asked for more prison sponsors, if anyone was interested.
The Region reps were questioned in detail about their report on the previous region, with intergroup showing a deep concern for the conduct of the region chairman at region in March 2009. Plymouth intergroup requested with a vote in favour of 18 out of 21, that its reps write to the region secretary with the statement that is included in the June 2009
agenda under ‘matters arising’ asking for a vote of confidence in the region Chairman. Plymouth intergroup discussed and is against limiting how many times or how often someone can be nominated for a service position. It felt people can be nominated as often as they want, as long as they are seconded then they must be included in the voting
procedures, be that at intergroup or at region.
Elections: Dave M = TLO
Larry L = Secretary
Nominations: Michael T = Chairman”
**See article below to see the outcome of that “intervention” by the Chairman and Health Liaison officer from the Plymouth (cult) Intergroup.
And now we come to the minutes of the last Regional Assembly:
Extract from:
Alcoholics Anonymous
Minutes of the 116h South West Region Assembly
Annual General Meeting
June 7 2009
Cardinal Newman House, Wonford Road, Exeter, EX2 4PF
1 Preliminaries
The Chairman opened the meeting and welcomed all, especially visitors. The Preamble and Declaration of Unity were read and the traditional silence observed, following which the Twelve Traditions were read.
3 Minutes of the last meeting - Matters Arising
3.1 Ben B held that the Minutes were not an accurate record, contending that heated dialogue which took place during the meeting had not been recorded and calling for a detailed report. The Secretary explained that the key points, which were that the Assembly had accepted Catherine C’s nomination for P.I. Rep and that there had been a call for a vote of no confidence in the Chair, with no vote taken, had been minuted. It was suggested that if there were further points for inclusion, Ben could provide an account for consideration for by the Assembly. Adoption of the Minutes was deferred.
3.2 Representatives from Plymouth Intergroup requested that the procedural issue included under Matters Arising be moved to be addressed after Election of Officers. It was explained that ‘the number of times the same member can be nominated for Regional position and frequency’ was an unresolved procedural issue first raised in March ’08 which had arisen again during the discussion at the previous Assembly. It was confirmed that this decision would not be retrospective.
A vote was taken and the motion to move the item was not carried.
3.3 Views were sought regarding this procedural issue and following open discussion, the proposal was put forward that the Assembly decide on the following question:
‘Should there be a limit on the number of times the same individual can come forward for the same position?’
It was the unanimous Group Conscience that there be no limit on the number of times people can put themselves forward for the same position.’
3.4 By way of background to this item for the benefit of those who had not accessed the website, the Chairman circulated copies of a report explaining his position (see Chairman’s report), a letter sent to Catherine C, and email correspondence from Wayne P. He owned that he had been wrong to have twice ignored a proposal put forward by members of the Assembly. There was open discussion about the matter during which members expressed their views and concerns and reported the Conscience of their Intergroups. Plymouth Intergroup had requested that the item be changed to ‘a vote of confidence’. It was explained that once again, this was a procedural issue. The Chairman had the confidence of the Assembly, therefore, if anything was to change, it would come as the result of a vote of no confidence. A further vote of confidence would be taken at the AGM in December. Also, this was a matter arising from the previous Minutes which recorded a proposal for a vote of no confidence in the Chair.
The motion of no confidence in the Chair was not carried.
4 Election of Officers
4.2 Conference Delegates:
Graeme H, David W, Rose M, Chris C were ratified as delegates. Johnny J, Gail M and Angelo L were ratified as alternates.
…....
4.4 Public Information Liaison: Catherine C failed to gain the 2/3 majority.
Following the vote on the Public Information Liaison position, Plymouth Road to Recovery members including Nick K (ECLO), Ben B (Region Rep), Gail M (Alt.Delegate), Andy B (Probation) and observers left the meeting. The Plymouth Region Rep is to advise Plymouth Intergroup to withhold funds from Region and send contributions directly to York. Alison B asked that it be noted that she was not working under any instructions and was guided by her own Conscience.
…......
5 Chairman’s Report
I, and I know a number of other members of the Regional Assembly were very upset by the circumstances of the last meeting, this letter is to let you all know the background.
Background
Several members of the Assembly had contacted me regarding :-
- disrespectful behaviour to Fellowship members at the Regional Assembly meetings
- if someone was proposed again for a Regional position and had recently twice before been voted against was it not ignoring Regions conscience to have another vote.
Both of the above points came together in the proposal that was made for the PI post.
Reasons for my original decision :-
On two occasions in the last year a member of the Fellowship had been proposed for the PI position and had been voted against, it seems that it was not because they had not got the relevant experience but because of their unacceptable behaviour which involved standing up, gesturing and shouting to force their opinion on others, which many members found shocking and very threatening.
It seemed to me that to vote again on exactly the same basis would be ignoring the conscience of the meeting that had so recently voted twice on the matter.
So I gave the opportunity to the individual to acknowledge, apologise and try to ensure that they would not behave that way again. Region could then vote on a new basis that would take into consideration the apology, therefore previous decisions and the conscience of the meeting would not be compromised.
I am very pleased to give someone as many chances as they need. I have received and will continue to need to get lots of chances myself when I have made mistakes, however to get those chances I have had to admit my mistakes. The individual has had months and at the last Assembly was given specific time to clear this up so that we could all move on, despite this there was no apology
However, I now believe that my decision was wrong at the last Assembly and I apologise as the conscience of the Assembly should be the members responsibility not the Chair. I will try to ensure this does not occur again. Roger E.
7 Secretary’s Report
I am pleased to report that the mailing list is up to date and communication between officers seems to be improving. The NASUWT conference in Bournemouth went well, communication between GSO and the Bournemouth and Poole P.I. Committee was effective.
I am sorry that the content of my report contains so little to do with active service on behalf of the AA members in the 267 groups we are here to represent. At the end of the last Assembly, I witnessed an aggressive personal attack by an observer on the Chairman, who was told that he was ‘useless and a ‘f**ng disgrace to Alcoholics Anonymous’. I was shocked and upset by this. Not by the language – as an alcoholic I have heard and given much worse, but by the lack of respect for a fellow member of AA and the apparent absence of regard for our primary purpose.
I am in service to the Fellowship as a privilege, not by entitlement, for two inseparable reasons: to keep me sober and to help the suffering alcoholic. Since the last Assembly, I have questioned whether my Regional service is achieving this.
I am aware that the Chairman has received and accepted an apology for the comments made, however I would ask the Assembly for its assurance that such behaviour will not be tolerated. Please, let us remember why we are here.
There was a unanimous vote in favour of the proposal that such behaviour would not be tolerated. Discussion followed on how to address unacceptable behaviour should the situation arise. Reference was made to Guidelines 16 and 17:
Guideline 16:
‘Violence in any form is not acceptable at any level of the structure; our members have the right to feel secure and safe in meetings and whilst going about our AA service/business.’
Guideline 17:
‘Offensive behaviour should not be condoned. Failure to challenge and stop inappropriate behaviour gives the offender permission to respect [sic – we would guess this should read “repeat”] the offensive behaviour and encourages others to follow suit.’
And on a personal note:
“Just back in from south-west Region meeting. Wayne didn't show his face today. For once he didn't have the neck to attend knowing that the secretary's report put him on the spot.
We spent an awful amount of time on 3 issues which evolved out of the last meeting.
After much very good sharing it was agreed that the loving god of the group conscience expressed through a third legacy vote was much more the AA way to decide on who or how jobs were fulfilled at region. We agreed unanimously that any member could come back to be proposed as many times and as often as they liked.
After much very good sharing it was agreed that the loving god of the group conscience expressed through a third legacy vote was much more the AA way to decide on who or how jobs were fulfilled at region. We agreed unanimously that any member could come back to be proposed as many times and as often as they liked.
Next the vote of no confidence in the chair ( Roger E.) After much deliberation the vote was overwhelmingly in support of the chair. 6 or 7 members from Plymouth voted in the minority no confidence.
Then the fun really began when voting for officers came around. Catherine C from the RTR who had caused all the fuss by coming back again for the PI post didn't poll enough votes to get the job. At this juncture the RTR Plymouth region rep Ben leapt to his feet to denounce the region and walked out taking several RTR region officers with him citing that Plymouth Intergroup would no longer wish to be part of south-west region and would withhold funds.
3 or 4 members from Plymouth who were not RTR stayed on and soberly joined in with what became an amicable afternoon of fellowship once the idiots from RTR had left. How on earth the RTR members will sell their behaviour to the 36 groups in Plymouth is beyond comprehension.”
Editor's comment: You may draw whatever conclusions you wish from the (rather lengthy) exposition above. We, however, know exactly what we're dealing with. The use of the term “thug” may be emotive, as are expressions like “Step Nazis”, “Taliban” etc but this terminology does express most adequately the true character of these individuals. Their immaturity and arrogance is evident to all once the mask that they have composed so carefully has been dropped. They do not apologise for their conduct because they are “constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves”. It is interesting to note that the Chairman of South-West region exemplifies a marked contrast to their behaviour, and his willingness to recognise his own failings most ably demonstrates the difference between what AA espouses and what the cult likes to masquerade as recovery. The cult is all about presentation but there is nothing of any substance beneath the show. Their system of sponsorship is about eliciting compliance rather than genuine spiritual development. Their emphasis on legalistic interpretations of concepts, traditions, guidelines, handbooks etc, and appeal to myths of the past, all of these are manipulated by the cult to serve only their own ends, which is the pursuit of control. Human power is placed above Higher Power, and the result is an increasingly desperate grouping of pseudo-individuals who display all the signs of a deep pathology, that of untreated alcoholism. They are the first to point out deficiencies of others, but are blind to their own, and their message is propaganda:
“All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true in itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
—Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X[1]”
PS A close second to the “big lie” is the “big cover-up”. We understand that the recent move to password protect the south-west Region site was instituted by the Electronic Communications officer for that region – and he is …. a member of the Road to Recovery (cult) group, Plymouth. Now there's a surprise!! Let's hope that the RTR carry their decision one step further and withdraw from Region, from Plymouth Intergroup and from AA - taking the other cult groups with them.
Cheers
The Fellas
PPS A note of caution - never, ever, give these guys a second break - that mistake was made by West Kent Intergroup - and they're still paying the price!!
8/06/09
News from Plymouth
A copy of a letter sent to us from Plymouth. It is unedited apart from names being abbreviated (with the exception of the author who has in the past requested that we leave his name as is)
To whom it may concern
in the matter of the invasion of the 2.30 afternoon Meeting at the Derriford Hospital on Friday the 24th of April, 2009 by multi-members of the cult group,
the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth
In particular this note is addressed to ……….
Mr. Rodney Baxendale, The Senior Chaplain of The Derriford Hospital Trust
The Chairman of Intergroup
The Chairman of Region
The Chairman of the Board of Alcoholics Anonymous
Ann N., The General Secretary of Alcoholics Anonymous
The Secretary, aacultwatch
and especially ……
Mr. Wayne P....
Mr. Jon F..
Mr. Alexis K..., et al …….
I write to ensure there is no confusion about my instructions of that date, when a truck-load of this group arrived, and the following week, Friday the 1st of May, when four members of the Road to Recovery Group were sent to interfere with our meeting and who were most especially asked to leave the meeting and the premises. Had it not been for my personally having to attend an appointment at the Outpatients department for attendance at the GastroIntestinal Surgery at 3pm I would have stayed to ensure compliance with my request.
Indeed I hope that our agreed procedures were clarified by Mr. Baxendale whose input to this meeting is huge, although not a member of Alcoholics Anonymous but acting as the landlord in this case and with respect, holding but a modicum of inflexibility in this matter within his remit.
After a number of years of trying by letter and in endless discussions with Doctors, Psychiatrists, patients, Staff, both Medical and in practical, physical service at the Derriford Hospital, including more than a few recovering alcoholics, not counting repeated correspondence with many people, including Governors and Principals associated with the Hospital, and in the Glenbourne Unit across the way, specialising at one time in the admission of drug and alcohol patients, although now only dealing with mentally ill persons, regardless of the cause, in Plymouth, finally through the good offices of the Reverend Rodney Baxendale, the Senior Chaplain of the Trust, it became possible to obtain a foothold in this bastion of indifference to Alcoholics Anonymous.
Mr. Baxendale rented me a room at a nominal figure for an experimental period of a few weeks so that Alcoholics Anonymous could be made visible and available to those patients who presented with a drinking problem upon their admission to the Hospital, and this was put in place with our first meeting on the 16th of January, 2009, exactly sixteen weeks ago to this day.
A second payment of rent for ten weeks was made within this trial period that we had arbitrarily agreed, when Mr. Baxendale confirmed that we would continue with the experiment, and the meeting has run well since then. Intergroup were informed but the Secretary did not pick up the mail from Post Office Box 96 in time for the following Intergroup February Meeting, and who were therefore not aware of this.
Our existence finally found its’ way onto the local Where-to-Find and at the last Intergroup Meeting on Sunday the 19th of March, which I did not attend, there was a fuss made about Ken G opening a Meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous in the Hospital without apparently consulting with the Intergroup Health Liaison Officer, as if this was necessary, the assumption being that this is the only person who can open a Meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous in a Hospital, quite misreading the the suggestion put forward in our Guidelines, and subsequently, as was accurately forecast by me, we were inundated by a lorry load of cult members led by the High Priest himself, Wayne P...., followed as ever by his henchmen and disciples Jon F.. and Alexis K..., to whom this note is also particularly addressed.
I was yet again honoured that the first team arrived, this not being the first time such opposition has attacked in force. They are just so predictable.
However, I have to advise you that non-members of Alcoholics Anonymous are not welcome at our meeting unless they have a desire to stop drinking. So, too, as was made abundantly clear earlier that the purpose of the meeting in my arrangements with Mr. Baxendale and clearly delineated in my unread letter to the Intergroup Secretary, was to ensure and try to maintain a small, intimate, if even quite informal group meeting of indeterminate length trying to help the odd patient into recovery in Alcoholics Anonymous, and not to cater for a bus load of aggressive cult members using whatever programme they say they have from the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth, presently temporarily and erroneously listed as an AA group in the City.
Hopefully shortly this will be put right by the Board of Alcoholics Anonymous when finally they gather and pay attention to the proliferation of information circulating around the country about this deviant group, particularly in Kent, London and throughout the South of England in their shouting and demands to be heard, and whose help is herewith requested today to put forward a presentation to Conference who will surely by now have found the need to find a solution to cult groups pretending to be members of Alcoholics Anonymous and using their programme under the banner of AA, to correct the matter of Groups registering themselves with Alcoholics Anonymous who have other interests as a Group not connected with the fellowship, as noted in Problems other than Alcohol. This hierarchical ‘Control’ system is what appears to be their problem and this ‘Control’ problem is not the way in which AA works.
It will be seen also the difficulties of their removal from the offices they have sequestered through fear and gross numbers that in Plymouth Intergroup they fill the positions of Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer, Regional Representative, Prison Liaison Officer, Health Liaison Officer, Public Information Officer with the addition of their Group Service Representative making eight votes in session, backed often by a vociferous non-voting group putting pressure by association into opposition to their views. Things do not change having manipulated themselves into these positions not only by apathy, but by long serving members stepping away from the service in rotation, and neither returning nor rotating within again, sick of the internal squabbling inherent in the workings of the Road to Recovery minds, making it impossible to change the position through force of numbers.
Jesus freaks, God squads and Control freaks we have by the bundle in Alcoholics Anonymous and it is not clear where the mandate for such lies in our Traditions, Guidelines and the principles and practices of the practical application of our programme of recovery as outlined in the ‘Big Book’ of Alcoholics Anonymous and written under the auspices of the first hundred people who sobered up in the late thirties of the last century in America, led by Bill Wilson and Doctor Bob Smith, the co-founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, and indeed it is high time that the Board take responsibility for this and produce a ruling before implosion or explosion creates a situation of destruction in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Always remember that Bill Wilson’s own comment, well documented over the years and repeated here “AA will be destroyed from within” - and I would ask you particularly to note that it is not ‘May’ or ‘Might’ but ‘Will’ and it may be that the Clancy worshippers of Wayne’s World and his team, the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth so called, are the people to do it if you do not take action now.
Certainly the anger, resentment, aggression and bloodymindedness shown by these people displayed in their “Special purpose” group, the cult group the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth are not in alignment with the principles taught to me of Alcoholics Anonymous, therefore in using and promulgating such drivel, cannot be seen to be, or pretend to be, members of Alcoholics Anonymous even although they think and say that they are. Alcoholics Anonymous does not have such a control programme as they operate, or enforced sponsorship, interfering with Al-Anon, sponsoring Al-Anon members, enforcement of attendance at only their own meetings and so on, all outside AA’s principles and practices, using fear tactics to prevent their members going to other meetings, anywhere, ever.
On this basis alone you are neither welcome nor wanted at the Friday Hospital Meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I want you particularly to pay attention to this for it has been a long, long, long hard struggle to open a Meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous in this Hospital, one to which I have dedicated myself for many, many years, that you are finally warned with this letter that in arriving in any number at all at the Friday meeting of the 8th of May the meeting will be closed on the basis of breach of contract between myself and the authority leasing the room to us without further ado.
This not a threat but a stated, negotiated fact.
If you choose to attend and have it closed I would note your deliberate intent in such an action. You cannot here use “It is an AA meeting so anyone can come” in this situation. There is a specific barrier to members of the cult group the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth. If such a situation should arise I have heard it said that is not impossible that the Security Services might be called to evict you although this was merely mentioned as an option by the staff and not a fact.
This deal is brokered by Mr. Baxendale who will not tolerate interference in our arrangements, tentative though they may have earlier been, but now firm in situ.
This unwarranted intrusion breaches the mutual trust we have placed in one another and breaks my promise to him in attempting to serve the Hospital and their patients in a quiet, mild and gentle way, as is the way of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I would remind you of my irritation many years ago at the Regional Assembly when under extreme pressure and sarcastic comment by Alexis K... that I described a couple of you in derogatory terms and was voted out of Region for it. ‘He used the ‘C’ word’ said the pitiful Alexis, and whilst such invective may be reprehensible, I nonetheless thought at the time ‘where do you people come from’ sneaking your way in by enforcement of numbers and fear campaigns into the positions of conference Delegate where two of you, Jon F.. and Alexis K... attacked the General Secretary and had to be hauled off her by other members of the fellowship. A woman for goodness sake. What are you people made of? Such a display of resentment and anger, most especially towards a women, untenable and not the way AA does things. Clearly you have not learned the ways of Alcoholics Anonymous and its’ built-in peaceful programme of tolerance and goodwill. No wonder my hackles were raised, later justified by the appalling behaviour of the Conference Delegates at the time.
These are they who are personally displaying with such graphic clarity their destructive intent towards this Hospital Meeting.
It is because Ken G has had the audacity to found such a meeting that this play-acting has commenced. This is personal. One against hundreds. Perhaps even thousands as we look across the countrywide South.
These also are the people coming by the Bus load indicating, with their aggressive and obnoxious behaviour, that they have an entitlement to shout and scream at the Chairman of Intergroup and Region, throwing insults, false and verbal accusations when many are not even elected members of any forum, never mind either the Intergroup or Regional Assembly. I remember there being between four and five non-elected people at each of the six Conference Questions tables prior to last year’s Conference and wondered how people could find the strength to oppose such numbers when decisions were being required to be taken for onward transmission to our Conference Delegates, even as indeed they had no right to a voice individually as visitors and which, in such a forum, should have been carried by their own Plymouth Representative and not by twenty or thirty followers, and with such aggression and anger. This is not the way we do things in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Anger and aggression we dealt with a long time ago.
I would at this point also address this separatist group behaviour with an example last year when Clancy was invited to a special and different Convention at the Guildhall in Plymouth on the Saturday of the week in which our own local Plymouth Intergroup Mini-Convention was being held on the Sunday at Crownhill when not a single person of this Road to Recovery Convention Group came to the Plymouth Mini-Convention on the Sunday, including our famous International friend, Clancy, earlier invited as the principal Saturday special speaker, probably because Alcoholics Anonymous proper does not pay expenses to people to attend to speak and this is but a gross representation and example of the separatist status of this movement calling itself an Alcoholics Anonymous Group in Plymouth presently unmovable from control of Intergroup because of their weight of numbers in the pole positions, Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer and so on.
However this will change soon, hopefully.
Malcolm Brown’s funeral, on the death of a long-standing, widely known member of the fellowship, was also boycotted in the same way. All of this group not allowed to attend a funeral because Wayne P.... said so. Shameful.
This is not the AA way. This is Wayne’s Way.
Since we are fully aware that within their enforced sponsorship situation no one member of the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth is permitted to attend other meetings unless directly approved by their sponsor, ultimately in the hierarchical system in the same way as pyramid selling, or coming organized, team-handed to poach people from other meetings, and disrupt their procedures, anyone arriving will not be casual but at your command, the meeting closes, perhaps never to re-open purely through your personal vindictiveness and spite and none other.
Again, this is not the AA way.
In recent times the twelve-stepping of people coming into the fellowship has slowly been wrought away from ordinary members by increasing numbers of the Road to Recovery group on the listings, and in service on the Helpline, leading all new people 12-stepped by them only to the Road to Recovery Group and never into Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole and it has recently come to my notice that two members of the Road to Recovery group work in the Magistrates Court and that all persons going through the Courts are thus called upon in Court or in the Cells by only Road to Recovery members.
This insidious, creeping menace to Alcoholics Anonymous finds daily yet one more member being trapped into this one group under the guise of being admitted to Alcoholics Anonymous, and this is just not the acceptable.
Slowly, but with certainty, all avenues into Alcoholics Anonymous proper are slowly being closed by particular and careful design to people suffering with a drinking problem and all are being directed into this incestuous puddle of the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth. This is not the way AA works.
So, keep your hands off the Hospital Group, the last unfettered entry into Alcoholics Anonymous, founded by long-time sober members totally committed to the principles and practices of Alcoholics Anonymous without question, and not the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth.
Mr. Baxendale has absolute power as the landlord.
His decision final.
If you come, if you play any of your tricks, I leave.
He withdraws the facility. Closes the room.
With the resultant call from the General Service Office it became obvious that the meeting had been closed by the Road to Recovery Group arriving at the scene on Friday the 8th of May. I was regrettably not able to be there because I had a 3pm appointment in the Upper Gastrointestinal Department and could not make it and Mr Baxendale withdrew the room. The meeting thus closed by the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth.
This is what these people are doing in Plymouth
Yours faithfully,
Kenneth G. M. Grigor
Editor's comment:
This letter is from someone who is a long-standing and knowledgeable member of Alcoholics Anonymous, one who has many years of experience in a whole range of service positions, and who has a thorough grasp of the principles and practice of the recovery programme of AA, and certainly the spirit of its Fellowship. In contradistinction the cult members that he and other members of AA have to deal with in Plymouth, in London, in Bristol, in Bournemouth, in both East and West Kent, and in many other parts of the country are quite simply thugs. The three individuals that he mentions in his letter are well known to anyone in that part of the world. All three have an established track record as bullies, whose only response when thwarted is to shout and scream, stamp their feet and if that fails then fall back into the "victim position" and complain that they are misunderstood, that they should be treated differently, that people don't understand them etc. The tactics described by Ken are familiar to anyone who has dealings with them. The lies and deceit which are part and parcel of their programme are in evidence wherever they operate. Certainly in West Kent Mark M (cult meetings: Strood Thursday, Rochester Monday, Rochester Saturday, Gravesend Tuesday) has a proven record of lying to Intergroup, and was indeed caught in the act at an Intergroup meeting denying all knowledge of correspondence between him and the Drug and Alcohol Foundation (see Transcripts section and Area News: West Kent for further details). Right up to the point where he was actually confronted with copies of that correspondence he denied all knowledge of it. On being so challenged his response - we quote - "uttered a shriek" and walked out of Intergroup. Barbara K, conference delegate, current West Kent Intergroup secretary and cult member is currently trying to represent herself as acting in AA interests but is in fact a member of cult groups, actively supports cult conventions (Canterbury and London Primary Purpose conventions) but continues to present herself as an AA member. A number of years ago a dirty tricks campaign was orchestrated from Chelsea Intergroup in an attempt (failed) to oust the chairman of South West region. A number of letters were sent to members of that Assembly, the letters bearing the AA logo, in an attempt to place pressure upon them by breaking their anonymity. Moves continue in London by the cult groups to circumvent regional representation and impose their will upon AA members in the capital. In East Kent the Tankerton group (together with the cult meetings in Hythe Monday, Canterbury Friday...) continue to pressure newcomers to conform to their perverted notions of recovery, forcing sponsorship upon people who are vulnerable, insisting that they attend only their meetings, continuing to induce dual diagnosis members to discontinue their medication despite repeated warnings to the contrary on this. The practice of poaching newcomers in meetings has successfully been terminated in the Medway Towns simply because AA members and groups have taken direct action. Cult members are not welcome at those meetings, and should they attempt to approach newcomers this will be challenged, and the culprits will be asked to leave, and if necessary escorted from the building (by members or by the police where necessary).
These are not people that we can do business with. They do not play by any rules other than the ones they manufacture. They have no interest in the welfare of either the newcomer or AA. They have no respect for the traditions of AA. They respect the guidelines only insofar as they serve their interests, and their aim is to control AA in Great Britain by placing their members at every level of service (especially conference delegates) in the Fellowship.
They can EASILY be stopped. We have absolutely no doubt that the problem can be resolved almost effortlessly by AA members when these realise the following: the Service Board of AA can do NOTHING. GSO York can do NOTHING. The AA Conference can do NOTHING. Regions can do NOTHING. Intergroups can do NOTHING. It is only by individual members of AA taking responsibility and working collectively within their groups that this evil can successfully be opposed. Looking the other way, walking out of meetings, pretending the problem doesn't exist, or that somebody else is going to do something about it, being two faced and playing the "political game", or being more concerned with your popularity than the welfare of the newcomer - all of these DON'T work. Complacency, self delusion, evasion of responsibility, or plain simple moral cowardice - it is these that will ensure AA's demise in this country.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing" (attributed to Edmund Burke (1729-1797 - philosopher)
PS More to come shortly on the Plymouth (cult) Intergroup and South West region (history sometimes has a habit of repeating itself)
4/06/09
"How to make a cup of tea" the Road to Recovery (Plymouth cult group) way
- some proposals by Little Wayne (aka "Great Luminary of the R to R" aka "Micro Management Man")
A member brought these little gems to our attention - both extracts are from the AA service forum (located on the AA website). You will have to forgive the satire but there is so much material coming out of his mouth that we couldn't pass up the opportunity.
Firstly: Wayne's proposal in principle - should there be a tea maker? (our commentary in brackets below)
"Re: A loving God as he epresses [sic] Himself
Reply #16 - Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:24pm
Reply #16 - Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:24pm
Guidelines for our Group Chairman discusses voting and motions etc
Agenda
Agenda
1.
All issues submitted to Group Service Committee members, by members of the group, must be carefully considered by the Chair for possible inclusion in the final agenda.
(The question of whether a tea maker should be included in the agenda for the GSC? Remember - this is an important issue!)
All issues submitted to Group Service Committee members, by members of the group, must be carefully considered by the Chair for possible inclusion in the final agenda.
(The question of whether a tea maker should be included in the agenda for the GSC? Remember - this is an important issue!)
1a.
The agenda could also include items discussed at the last or items to be discussed at the next Intergroup,Region or conferences the chair should be well informed on all such matters by the GSR .
(Maybe the question of the tea maker might be needed to be discussed at Intergroup etc. Remember - this is a very important issue!!)
The agenda could also include items discussed at the last or items to be discussed at the next Intergroup,Region or conferences the chair should be well informed on all such matters by the GSR .
(Maybe the question of the tea maker might be needed to be discussed at Intergroup etc. Remember - this is a very important issue!!)
1b
The group may have decided to include in the agenda certain items left over from the previous business meeting because they require more informed debate.
(Maybe the question needs to be discussed at very great length over a number of GSC meetings. Remember - this is a very, very important issue!!!)
The group may have decided to include in the agenda certain items left over from the previous business meeting because they require more informed debate.
(Maybe the question needs to be discussed at very great length over a number of GSC meetings. Remember - this is a very, very important issue!!!)
1c
Group Conscience meetings are every six months,so if time allows the agenda should include a group inventory.
(And if we've got time over from discussing the tea maker issue maybe we'll discuss other things as well)
Group Conscience meetings are every six months,so if time allows the agenda should include a group inventory.
(And if we've got time over from discussing the tea maker issue maybe we'll discuss other things as well)
2.
The agenda should be as clear and as specific as possible, remembering we only have a limited amount of time for debate.
(The question of tea maker should be clearly delineated to ensure that nobody is confused about the subject matter of the discussion)
The agenda should be as clear and as specific as possible, remembering we only have a limited amount of time for debate.
(The question of tea maker should be clearly delineated to ensure that nobody is confused about the subject matter of the discussion)
3.
The Group Chairman has the "right of decision" when deciding the final agenda, but must remember he/she is accountable to the group.
(If the tea maker issue might prove to be controversial then the Chairman might have to step in to decide if it should feature in the discussion)
The Group Chairman has the "right of decision" when deciding the final agenda, but must remember he/she is accountable to the group.
(If the tea maker issue might prove to be controversial then the Chairman might have to step in to decide if it should feature in the discussion)
4.
The Chair should give the final Agenda to the GSR for distribution one week before Group Service Committee meeting's.
(At least one week's notice should be sufficient to allow people to absorb the possibility that they might be discussing the tea maker issue)
Motions
1.
All motion's made should be carefully considered in light of our Traditions,Concepts & Guidelines.If the Chairman believes the motion to be outside of these it should be his/her duty to inform the Group and reject the motion.The group can overturn this with a majority vote.
(Should the proposal to discuss the tea maker issue be contrary to the Traditions, Concepts & Guidelines (and quite possibly Biblical interpretation) then the Chairman must intervene)
The Chair should give the final Agenda to the GSR for distribution one week before Group Service Committee meeting's.
(At least one week's notice should be sufficient to allow people to absorb the possibility that they might be discussing the tea maker issue)
Motions
1.
All motion's made should be carefully considered in light of our Traditions,Concepts & Guidelines.If the Chairman believes the motion to be outside of these it should be his/her duty to inform the Group and reject the motion.The group can overturn this with a majority vote.
(Should the proposal to discuss the tea maker issue be contrary to the Traditions, Concepts & Guidelines (and quite possibly Biblical interpretation) then the Chairman must intervene)
2.
Any motion made at the Group Conscience which has already been voted on within the previous six months should not be allowed unless a majority of two thirds desires it.
(If they've already had a vote on the tea maker issue then they should give it a break for at least six months unless there is a 2/3rds majority for another discussion - this is thirsty work - hope they get a tea maker soon!)
Any motion made at the Group Conscience which has already been voted on within the previous six months should not be allowed unless a majority of two thirds desires it.
(If they've already had a vote on the tea maker issue then they should give it a break for at least six months unless there is a 2/3rds majority for another discussion - this is thirsty work - hope they get a tea maker soon!)
3.
There should be thorough discussion and as much understanding of the motion as possible before any vote is taken.
(The concept of tea maker needs to be fully explored - no rash and uninformed decisions to be made on this question!)
There should be thorough discussion and as much understanding of the motion as possible before any vote is taken.
(The concept of tea maker needs to be fully explored - no rash and uninformed decisions to be made on this question!)
4.
There should only be one motion on the table at a time, a second motion is allowed only if the first is withdrawn.
(And there can't be too many motions put forward on the question of a tea maker - keep it simple!)
There should only be one motion on the table at a time, a second motion is allowed only if the first is withdrawn.
(And there can't be too many motions put forward on the question of a tea maker - keep it simple!)
5.
Any motion by a sober member of the group which has been seconded should be carefully considered and voted on provided it fit's the criteria in section 3 a,b & c
(Aside from the fact that it's questionable if this group actually has a sober member this is an important consideration - after all it's not every day that the principle of having a tea maker is discussed)
Any motion by a sober member of the group which has been seconded should be carefully considered and voted on provided it fit's the criteria in section 3 a,b & c
(Aside from the fact that it's questionable if this group actually has a sober member this is an important consideration - after all it's not every day that the principle of having a tea maker is discussed)
6.
At any time, a person can introduce an amendment to the main motion being debated. For an amendment to pass, it needs a simple majority."
(Maybe somebody wants to change the focus of the discussion - from the question of the principle of having a tea maker to maybe actually having a tea maker - in which case an amendment needs to be brought forward)
At any time, a person can introduce an amendment to the main motion being debated. For an amendment to pass, it needs a simple majority."
(Maybe somebody wants to change the focus of the discussion - from the question of the principle of having a tea maker to maybe actually having a tea maker - in which case an amendment needs to be brought forward)
Now having actually discussed the matter in great length, and after due consideration we come to the.....
"Voting Process
1.
At the group conscience choose a teller, if possible an observer present to assist chair with counting votes.
(Remember - this is a very, very, very important issue!!!! - and should not be subject to any possibility of vote tampering)
At the group conscience choose a teller, if possible an observer present to assist chair with counting votes.
(Remember - this is a very, very, very important issue!!!! - and should not be subject to any possibility of vote tampering)
2.
" On simple matters a majority vote is enough.Even a "sense of the meeting " may take the place of a vote if no vote seems essential.in such a case the chairperson asks"is it the sense of the meeting that ....? . "If there are no "no's it is apparent there is accord".
(A rather abstruse point here - apparently if the concrete manifestation of the group conscience is not sufficiently convincing (ie hands up in the air) a more esoteric practice is brought into play - and the chairman seeks some form of collective psychic intervention - a form of telepathy perhaps - we have to admit we're quite lost on this one - but remember - this is a very, very, very, very, very important issue!!!!!)
" On simple matters a majority vote is enough.Even a "sense of the meeting " may take the place of a vote if no vote seems essential.in such a case the chairperson asks"is it the sense of the meeting that ....? . "If there are no "no's it is apparent there is accord".
(A rather abstruse point here - apparently if the concrete manifestation of the group conscience is not sufficiently convincing (ie hands up in the air) a more esoteric practice is brought into play - and the chairman seeks some form of collective psychic intervention - a form of telepathy perhaps - we have to admit we're quite lost on this one - but remember - this is a very, very, very, very, very important issue!!!!!)
2a.
(The group should decide on any change in the voting procedure before the vote is taken.The Majority required (if more than a simple majority) to be made known to the group by the chairman before voting .
(But before you vote you've got to vote on voting procedures etc - we can see an infinite regress developing here)
(The group should decide on any change in the voting procedure before the vote is taken.The Majority required (if more than a simple majority) to be made known to the group by the chairman before voting .
(But before you vote you've got to vote on voting procedures etc - we can see an infinite regress developing here)
2b.
Any matter of great importance to the group or AA as a whole can be decided with either a two thirds or even three quarters majority rather than a simple majority. The Group can decide what majority is required with a majority vote."
(The question of how big a majority is a majority - after all the implications of the principle of having a tea maker at this group might have repercussion for other groups or AA as a whole. This is perhaps one of the few occasions when the Road to Recovery (cult) Group gives any thought to Tradition Four.)
Any matter of great importance to the group or AA as a whole can be decided with either a two thirds or even three quarters majority rather than a simple majority. The Group can decide what majority is required with a majority vote."
(The question of how big a majority is a majority - after all the implications of the principle of having a tea maker at this group might have repercussion for other groups or AA as a whole. This is perhaps one of the few occasions when the Road to Recovery (cult) Group gives any thought to Tradition Four.)
What happened to 3?
4.
After any vote the Chairman can ask for minority opinions "a well-reasoned minority opinion can result in another vote,reversing the first decision".
(Ah hah! Minority rights - always an important question for this group because it is after all a minority - though it makes a lot of noise. But then in this instance we do understand that this is a very, very..... etc issue and not something to be rushed into. It maybe that there are some non-beverage drinkers in the group whose views need to be heard)
After any vote the Chairman can ask for minority opinions "a well-reasoned minority opinion can result in another vote,reversing the first decision".
(Ah hah! Minority rights - always an important question for this group because it is after all a minority - though it makes a lot of noise. But then in this instance we do understand that this is a very, very..... etc issue and not something to be rushed into. It maybe that there are some non-beverage drinkers in the group whose views need to be heard)
5.
The Chairman has no vote in the Group Service Committee.
(Quite right too. But surely an exception could be made on this one - it being such an important blah blah blah)
The Chairman has no vote in the Group Service Committee.
(Quite right too. But surely an exception could be made on this one - it being such an important blah blah blah)
5a.
The Chairman has a casting vote in the Group Conscience.When a vote is equally divided (ie if the vote was ten for & ten against the Chair can decide the vote one way or the other (Casting Vote).
(That's OK then. You've just got to vote on something as important as .... )
The Chairman has a casting vote in the Group Conscience.When a vote is equally divided (ie if the vote was ten for & ten against the Chair can decide the vote one way or the other (Casting Vote).
(That's OK then. You've just got to vote on something as important as .... )
6.
The chair can request an immediate vote on any issue that needs to be resolved quickly. This could mean a vote before or after any meeting without prior warning."
The chair can request an immediate vote on any issue that needs to be resolved quickly. This could mean a vote before or after any meeting without prior warning."
(Damn right - we're getting thirsty here just reading this. It's pretty urgent now, this question of the issue of the principle of having a tea maker for the group)
Having established that a tea maker in principle should be elected to the position now we come to the actual question of getting one
And so from the meticulous hands of Little Wayne - micro manager par excellence!!
"Re: A loving God as he epresses [sic] Himself
Reply #17 Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:25pm
Reply #17 Aug 23rd, 2007, 8:25pm
Election of officers
1.
At the GSC ask for all nominations for position of cleaner followed by Tea & Literature etc.each candidate should be seconded.
(Tricky one this - apparently the cleaner position takes precedence over the tea maker etc. We wonder if this group's got its priorities right)
(Tricky one this - apparently the cleaner position takes precedence over the tea maker etc. We wonder if this group's got its priorities right)
1a.
Ask for all in favour of nomination to raise hands If there is more than one nomination for a particular job the candidate with majority gets the gsc nomination.
(This bit seems relatively straightforward - although perhaps a duel to the death might be an alternative - and an altogether more entertaining approach - and we feel much more appropriate given how important .......)
Ask for all in favour of nomination to raise hands If there is more than one nomination for a particular job the candidate with majority gets the gsc nomination.
(This bit seems relatively straightforward - although perhaps a duel to the death might be an alternative - and an altogether more entertaining approach - and we feel much more appropriate given how important .......)
2.
At the Group Conscience the Chairman reads out all the nominations for all positions. Asking the candidate's to raise their hands to identify themselves and show that they are willing to do the job.
(Is the person who might become the tea maker actually the person that they claim to be? And do they actually want the job?? It could get a bit sticky here - after all they must be quite drained by now what with all the tension that has built up over the previous marathon of discussions on the subject)
At the Group Conscience the Chairman reads out all the nominations for all positions. Asking the candidate's to raise their hands to identify themselves and show that they are willing to do the job.
(Is the person who might become the tea maker actually the person that they claim to be? And do they actually want the job?? It could get a bit sticky here - after all they must be quite drained by now what with all the tension that has built up over the previous marathon of discussions on the subject)
2a.
All candidates submitted by the gsc should have been seconded at the GSC meeting prior to the Group Conscience.
(Quite right too. Got to stick to procedures, especially on such an important .......etc)
All candidates submitted by the gsc should have been seconded at the GSC meeting prior to the Group Conscience.
(Quite right too. Got to stick to procedures, especially on such an important .......etc)
3.
At the Group Conscience start by going through the Cleaning position's for each meeting one at a time. Ask for any other nomination's.If there are none ask for any objections to the candidate having the job.In the absence of any objections the candidate is elected.If there are other nomination's they should be seconded before going to a vote.
(Hold on a sec - what about the tea maker?)
At the Group Conscience start by going through the Cleaning position's for each meeting one at a time. Ask for any other nomination's.If there are none ask for any objections to the candidate having the job.In the absence of any objections the candidate is elected.If there are other nomination's they should be seconded before going to a vote.
(Hold on a sec - what about the tea maker?)
4.
If an elected officer is unable to complete their term of office and finishes between conscience meetings the GSR can appoint a member to fill in.The new officer should be ratified at the next GSC.
(Looks like the tea maker has given up the ghost - couldn't handle the strain and has done a runner - can you blame them? And what to do now?)
If an elected officer is unable to complete their term of office and finishes between conscience meetings the GSR can appoint a member to fill in.The new officer should be ratified at the next GSC.
(Looks like the tea maker has given up the ghost - couldn't handle the strain and has done a runner - can you blame them? And what to do now?)
4a.
If the position discussed in (4) involves membership of the Group Service Committee the GSR should cover the position themselves or ask a current member of the GSC to do the job,untill the GSC decide on a nomination for the group to ratify."
If the position discussed in (4) involves membership of the Group Service Committee the GSR should cover the position themselves or ask a current member of the GSC to do the job,untill the GSC decide on a nomination for the group to ratify."
(God knows what this is about - quick get the handbook out - we're getting seriously thirsty here! Can't take it anymore - we're going down the cafe)
On a slightly more serious note (though we are getting quite hysterical in the cultwatch office) the principle of thorough discussion is appropriate in those circumstances that warrant it, but the "guidelines" above simply exemplify the paranoid and dogmatic tendencies of cult group members, and an indication of their lack of perspective. Serious issues require serious consideration but the cult does not know where to stop - it produces "suggestions" on every subject, and in increasing detail, usually accompanied by dire warnings if they should not be adhered to. Recovery for these poor creatures is like a straitjacket. There is no spontaneity, no fluidity, no sense that the world may be encountered as a dynamic process, that each human being evolves uniquely and has the innate capacity to respond to differing circumstances in distinct ways. Cooperation is not regimentation, and this is all that is offered by the cult groups - my way or the highway! We may pass the time in the company of others, but finally spiritual development takes place in the heart and mind of the individual - not the collective.
And on that homily we make our departure - time for a cup of tea - hold on though! Shouldn't we discuss this first? Who should fill the kettle with water? Is it your job or mine - I think we should have a vote ..........
Cheers
The Fellas
9/05/09
Just a little titbit from South West Region Annual General Meeting Minutes (Dec 6 2008)
Quote:
“Election of Officers
All Delegates were ratified and Committee numbers allocated.
Alt Conference Delegate:
[….........................................]
Mary McI failed to gain the majority vote.
It was felt important to aim for a geographical spread of Alt. Delegates to
ensure maximum access for the Fellowship.”
(edited)
It's interesting to observe this item, especially the comment at the end on “geographical spread”. AAs are quite notable for their encoding abilities so for those of you who've not quite progressed to advanced cryptographer status we'll provide the decrypted version.
Personnel: Mary McI – member of the Road to Recovery (cult) Group, Plymouth, sponsee of Wayne P, founder and “grand fromage” of that same group, which is apparently, and according to Mary McI, the “beating heart” of our Fellowship (God help us - someone pass us the stake!)
“geographical spread” - translation: “for God's sake let's put anyone else in that position but not somebody from that bloody group!!”
Shrewd move, and perhaps one that should be adopted by such cult infested Intergroups as West Kent, Plymouth and Westway not to mention (but we will) their increasing intrusiveness into Region, and Conference level participation as delegates.
Incidentally South West region has come over all coy and modest and has password protected its site (restricting access only to assembly members). This again is probably a shrewd move, especially with troublesome people like the aacultwatch team around, who love to turn over stones to see just what slithers out from underneath. Unfortunately with such security comes suspicion – exactly what is going on at Region, and what precisely are our “trusted servants” up to? What is required within AA is greater, not less, transparency, for we are, after all, an anonymous organisation, not a secret one. Even our 'lords and masters' in Parliament are now being obliged to reveal their little (and not so little) spending sprees (at our expense). It would seem that such practices lead to more, rather than less, corruption. Still who are we to question these actions? We, of course, assume that the assembly consulted the membership before making this decision – didn't you?
Cheers
The Fellas
30/03/09
Local web sites
An AA member drew our attention to the following comments by one of the contributors to the AA Service News (Spring 2009 edition, Electronic Communications Seminar, p. 4).) with reference to the proliferation of local websites run by various groups. We quote:
"Local web sites. Any payment to an outside provider for a service which is available within the Fellowship opposes Tradition Six and the Guidelines. Independently hosted local sites can provide local knowledge only, thus depriving the problem drinker and the AA member of the wider field of services available on the national AA website and for the 'may-have-a-problem' drinker access to the Online Response Team. They are trained to answer emails and shepherd the newcomer towards the telephone service and Twelfth stepper. Local intergroup sites hosted on the national AA website are monitored to ensure compliance with Fellowship Traditions and Guidelines."
By and large we agree with the views expressed here though not necessarily for the same reasons. Firstly, we're not at all sure where they are going with reference to Tradition 6 ie. "An AA group ought never endorse, finance or lend the AA name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose". (Short Form) (BB, 3rd ed, p. 564). (It's also worth noting at this point that it is quite easy to set up a website for nothing; the aacultwatch site doesn't cost a penny to run). As for the guidelines it might be helpful when referring to them to either quote the relevant section or point us in the direction of the same within that ever expanding archive. But apart from these relatively minor quibbles these observations make the point that local sites simply duplicate information that is already available on the main AA site. The AA website already possesses a search function to enable people to locate meetings in any part of the country. Intergroup websites, where they exist, also provide a local directory of meetings for the areas they cover, together with information on local events such as conventions and service structure activities. We can't see any good reason why groups should therefore feel the need to further clog up the internet with yet more unnecessary baggage......
......unless, of course, your group has a different message to carry - one that might not quite fit in with any AA guidelines, or Traditions or even programme, and/or perhaps a group that would like to promote itself in a certain locality without troubling itself with the effect it might have on other groups in the area. Now we reckon that a genuine AA group would not wish to cause any damage to other groups, but then we're not talking about AA groups - we're talking about cult groups. It's a fair bet that if you encounter a group advertising itself on the web - and we use the word 'advertising' deliberately here, ie. it is self 'promoting', and 'selling' its message, a message which has very little to do with what AA is actually about - then it's probably a cult group.
It's interesting to observe that these sites are becoming increasingly defensive about certain aspects of their behaviour. We now regularly see not only the usual disclaimers relating to non-endorsement by AA World Services but also such comments as: "Please disregard anything that you can't reconcile with the Big Book" (which is usually a large part of their content). We have also seen some of the cult groups making lengthy statements with reference to that most contentious of issues - medication - and indeed going to great lengths to give every appearance of following the AA guideline whilst no doubt holding to the same old party line (and lie) 'you can't recover if you're on medication' with all the implications that follow from that; we know that these groups are still handing out this deadly "suggestion" because newcomers are telling us so. The other defensive rationalisation employed on at least one site is that relating to Tradition Four. Now this Tradition is really, really inconvenient (from the cult's perspective) because it means that if they were actually seriously interested in AA unity then this is the one tradition that they would pay a little bit more than lip service to. But there are a number of ways around it, and these are all employed, severally and singularly, by the cult groups:
1) simply ignoring it - naturally this doesn't look good, and rather undermines that carefully managed image that the cult groups must present, at least whilst they still cling parasitically to the body of AA. Therefore the better strategy is to rely on that widespread 2) misquote - "Each group should be autonomous..." but leaving out that really tiresome section ie ".... except in matters affecting other groups or AA as a whole". Now if they don't succeed in sidestepping the tradition in this fashion then the fall back position is to 3) cite Tradition Five - which (they believe) somehow seems to supersede its predecessor. Now Tradition Five says, "Each group has but one primary purpose - to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers". This is quite a useful wording (from the cult perspective) for it seems to suggest that as long as the group is fulfilling this function then really everything else is 'secondary'. Thus a group will claim (as they frequently do) that according to this tradition it may carry 'its' message (whatever that might be) in any fashion that it likes (for the Tradition does not say otherwise). It doesn't require a great deal of imagination to realise that this interpretation can be stretched to justify literally any kind of behaviour. But, finally, if ignoring Tradition Four doesn't work, or misrepresenting it, or pretending that Tradition Five negates it, then never fear for a rescuer is at hand. Yes, none other than little Wayne, heroic comrade of the South West region, stalwart and elder statesman of the Plymouth Road to Recovery, that sole bastion of AA?? in the area. This group, in fact, is singlehandedly holding at bay the forces of darkness and ignorance that would engulf our fellowship. How do we know this? we hear you cry. Well, Wayne told us. We quote the immortal words of this AA saviour (available on any good cult website as an audio file):
"If you’re new or if you’re visiting this group – welcome. This group comes with a public health warning. Tonight you’re not in a meeting or mainstream meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. Tonight you are at the heart of Alcoholics Anonymous. If you want what we have you’ve got to do what we’ve done. If you’re not prepared to do it – just walk on by because there is nothing here for you. If you’re prepared to act on the information received then I promise you you will find a way of living sober and actually enjoying sobriety. That’s been my experience."
It is evident that this fellow, possessed as he is of such profound wisdom and penetrating insight, should not be ignored. We come now to the venerable Wayne's offerings on the subject of Tradition Four. Again we quote (from the same source):
"TRADITION FOUR..... As far as its internal affairs are concerned each group can do what they believe is right, even if they're wrong. They may seek the guidance of the General Service Office or even members of other groups and still remain autonomous, because they are not actually required to follow the advise or direction given to them by anybody. Regarding its internal affairs an AA group can reject all outside interference; this is the great freedom afforded to every group of Alcoholics Anonymous.
When the point in question concerns other groups or AA as a whole, that's a completely different story. For instance, a group is offered the chance of a radio broadcast to inform the public of their meeting. It seems like a good opportunity until the Intergroup PI Officer contacts the radio station to do something similar. The producers tell them "we did an AA broadcast recently and can't do another one just yet". In an area with a lot of AA meetings the group must remember that regardless of how close their venue is to the radio station or who they have working there, it isn't theirs."
So there you have it; 4) If it's an internal matter then it's really nobody else's concern except the group's - well except maybe the police if a crime has been committed - or the various regulatory authorities if there is a breach of statute law or legislation relating to discrimination, or health and safety - or friends and family if one of their kin has had their life destroyed by being told to stop taking their medication - or the proprietors of the venue if the licensees (ie the group) are in breach of the conditions of their license etc. But apart from these the group can just sail along, merrily exercising its right to be wrong apparently, and remain "happy, joyous and free" in a state of blissful stupidity - well according to Wayne that is. But there's just one little problem with this argument. "And what is that?" we again hear you cry. Well - just who exactly decides what is an "internal affair"? Now As Wayne Sees It it's the group, of course, which decides, and thereby neatly sidesteps the possibility of outside interference. But when we say "the group decides”, in cult speak what that actually means is "steering committee" - and when we say "steering committee" what that actually means is elder statesmen - and that brings us back to little Wayne. So it is the group, or steering committee, or elder statesmen, or finally Wayne, that is judge, jury and executioner. But then this is not just Wayne's perspective. This position is upheld by other cult members (selling their wares on their very own websites). We quote:
"Once the group conscience has made the decision, then we should conform to it. We don’t have to agree with it, but we should strive to accept it. Also, we should respect the customs of groups that we visit. If the custom of that group is not my liking, I can decide not to go again, but I should not subsequently complain about the group at other meetings. I should mind my own business."
(our emphasis)
and;
"We are all guilty of it at times, but we should watch our tendency to gossip about individuals and groups as it is destructive to the unity of AA as a whole. It breaks Traditions 4 and 1 (as well as just being plain rude)."
(our emphasis)
Tidy!!
But it's not going to work is it! The question as to whether a matter is internal or not cannot realistically be left simply to the group, and especially not a group like the Road to Recovery. At the very best their conduct could possibly be excused as based on an dumbfounding level of ignorance of the Traditions, guidelines etc, or, at worst, a deliberate evasion of these same in pursuance of the cult agenda (we tend towards the latter view). In the real world judgements relating to internal/external issues need to be made with regard to the broader context. Institutions have a tendency to become secretive - especially when they've got something to hide - and time and time again instances are reported in the media of the negligent conduct that follows from such 'dangerous autonomy'. It is only when those activities are exposed to public view that there exists any possibility of reform. The matters that AA deals with - and we say this without exaggeration - are those of life and death. These are concerns that cannot be left within the irresponsible hands of Wayne and his ilk. Each person bears an individual responsibility for his or her behaviour but additionally, as participants within a wider social grouping, we would argue that they bear a responsibility for the conduct of their fellows. Where their actions impinge upon others, and to the detriment of newcomers, it is not sufficient to look the other way, or mutter misquoted traditions (such as have been discussed above, or the "no controversy" defence, which is itself another misquote). This may not be to the liking of the cult, to have their perversion of AA exposed to the generality; but then we are not seeking to favour their interests. It is only after these questions have been scrutinised by those outside the group, by AA members and AA groups, and indeed by the wider society of those with an interest in the activities of the Fellowship (who will probably possess a more balanced perspective on the issues under consideration), it is then that the residue may be left purely at the discretion of the group conscience as informed by a power greater than themselves (and we do not mean by that their sponsors, steering committee et al). Sponsorship, attitudes towards prescribed medication, freedom of speech, freedom of religious expression, freedom of association (human rights issues), these can NEVER be left to the whim of an 'internal' committee. They are of the broadest possible interest; they are matters of public interest.
So keep up the good work Wayne! We would strongly encourage you to continue to open your mouth, firmly install your foot in it, and then post the results on a local group website – more grist to the mill!
Cheerio
The Fellas
25/02/09
News from Bristol
"thks for the good work you are doing to expose this horrible and corrosive thread withing AA.i live in bristol and we have groups that have been influenced by the plymouth roads to recovery group which i think is one of the worst aacults.we made a real stand at another 12 step fellowship the other day and explained we were not willing to listen to their message,the offending guys have no left us alone,keep up the good work,,respect....."
16/02/09
The cult in Bristol
A recent email:
"Greetings
I have just found your site and am finding it very informative. My experience of the Roads is mainly through listening to other members, but 15 months ago I did attend a funeral of an ex sponsee who had moved and started going to Roads and then phoned me all the time with his horror stories. Charlie was a lovely man and he was totally screwed by the Roads crowd.
My own story isn’t a horror story but it did leave a nasty taste in the mouth all the same. I was secretary at a group in Bristol and one of the members was a sponsee of Wayne at Plymouth Roads. Wayne was invited to come and speak on step 8 and duly turned up with half a dozen in tow who must have had at least 18 months between them. These young roadies then proceeded to question me about my recovery and told me how great life was for them now that they had found ‘the way’.
One by one, before the meeting started, they told me that I was going to drink and die as I had committed the terrible crime of turning up to chair an A.A. meeting without bothering to wear a tie.
Wayne must have been equally appalled because when it came time for him to talk, he forgot all about step 8 and lectured us all on how we were not true A.A.
This was a few years ago and I was probably 10 years sober at the time, and many of the other group members and visitors were 20 plus years sober and none of us were impressed. After the lecture we then listened to an orchestrated response from the other roadies who were kind enough to let us know what we were doing wrong.
I put it down to a bad experience and found much to laugh at (after all, misery is optional) and had almost forgotten about it until the next steering meeting. I was hauled over the coals by Wayne ’s sponsee for allowing a regular visitor to the meeting to ‘go off message’ when he spoke about something other than step 8 and I apparently had not said the correct things either.
I did not act as well as I might have, because during this lecture into my deficiencies as a chairman I decided that I had better things to do and went home.
Wayne’s sponsee soon after left the group and started a Roads to Recovery meeting in Bristol . I have since left Bristol but my understanding is that the Bristol Roads meeting is still going, but not attracting many visitors and only has a few members. There are about 80 meetings a week in Bristol and many of them have been going for 25/30 plus years and perhaps the Roads will find it difficult to get a toe in. Plus, the fact that the members that I know are such obvious bullies very few will be attracted to go back a second time.
May I wish you well in your endeavours to bring to our attention the dangers of the cult in our fellowship. Having said that, I go to very few meetings now unless I visit Bristol , as the other end of the spectrum is a fellowship where anything goes and that is equally unattractive. Perhaps one of the reasons the cult have managed to get so far is because some A.A. is so toxic.
Someone said balance – I suspect that that is what we may need if A.A. is to continue to help save lives.
In fellowship
Hugh"
Editor's comment: The situations described above are far from rare. The increasing arrogance of the Visions cult members in lecturing AA members on where “they are going wrong” is simply a demonstration of how far the former have lost touch with any kind of reality. It would be really quite amusing - if it were not sometimes attended with tragic consequences - to observe a cult member (where the alcohol has barely stopped dribbling from their lips) telling an AA who's been around “a few days” that they're not “on the path”, or that “they haven't got it” etc. Still, nothing really has changed since the days of David B (one of the prime movers of the cult back in the 80s) who was known to go round AA meetings telling them that they were getting it wrong. Funny thing is that despite David's demise AA seems to have somehow managed to struggle on without his services. The cult is, and always has been, an ego driven and personality led aberration, and so by definition it has no future. In the meantime, however, it continues to cause unnecessary suffering and has contributed to a number of suicides in the Fellowship. We should say that the correspondent's final observation has some merit. The cult would not have made any inroads into the Fellowship if all was well with AA. The failure of the Fellowship to address some fundamental flaws in its structure means that the cult will continue to spread. Namely:
- Apathy – we believe that this is primarily due to the alienation of the vast majority of the membership from the service structure due to its fundamentally undemocratic nature, the increasing complexity and proliferation of its guidelines (some of which are contradictory) and the addition of completely unnecessary service bodies eg.the Regions – "Keep it Simple" seems to have been utterly forgotten here.
- Intergroups are increasingly run by small caucuses of individuals ie Intergroup officers, and not by the representatives of AA members and AA groups, the GSRs. It's also worth noting at this point that GSRs are representatives and not delegates. They are conduits between the groups and Intergroup. Their purpose is to convey information between the two service structures and convey the wishes of their group members. They are NOT there to do what THEY please – they are NOT delegates.
- A lack of awareness of the distinction between AA membership and AA group membership. See handbook.
- Too many groups rely upon direction from individuals who to be frank “couldn't run a piss up in a brewery” (an entirely apposite image given the nature of our problem). Some of our “leaders” cannot be trusted to act for the good of AA, nor should they assume that trust any longer. The cult have not cornered the market in arrogance.
- We're sure that there are more – fill in the blanks:
Cheers
The Fellas
22/11/08
Sponsorship the AA way – some thoughts from the South West Region
"Been thinking about this idea of people who won’t fall into line as being unsponsorable. Perhaps my experience with cult groups within the AA service structure means that within the principles that they lay down for others, that they themselves become "unsponsorable" at Intergroup, Region and Conference.
Let me explain. When I first put my toe in the water and left the comfort of my home group to attend Intergroup, I saw within Intergroup a body of experienced individuals who I could learn from and allowed myself to become enriched within my AA service life by joining in with members from other towns and accepting their gift of experience, strength, and hope and knowledge, freely passed on to me. Likewise when I attended Region I sought out the board member for my region and asked questions. I thirsted for knowledge of the ever-expanding experience of members from other counties and intergroups. I began a period of tremendous growth within AA, which had nothing to do with my Home group. I was willing to listen to debate at region and vote according to my conscience. I sought to do what I thought was best for AA. Sometimes I got it wrong, but hey I was doing my best and I learnt from my mistakes.
I went to York as a new conference delegate. My first year I visited the GSO and whilst there I met Michael, a board member from Glasgow. He regaled me and 2 other Red Dotters for 2 whole hours with stories and his wonderful experience of AA service. Thus we grow! I served for 3 terms at conference and met and made friends with members from all regions including some lovely delegates from Europe. I allowed myself to be weaned off my sponsor and my home group so that I became a fully paid up member of the whole of the AA fellowship. It was a wonderful and enriching period of my AA life.
I still attend my home group regularly and have the same sponsor. My sponsor is 30 odd years without a drink and has a tremendous amount of experience in the AA service structure. Thankfully he didn’t demand that I rely
only upon his ideas and opinions, but rather he allowed me to grow within the shared experience of the whole fellowship. What a great gift. I suppose I could say that he allowed the Fellowship to sponsor me. He let go.
Now consider the experience of the cult group membership whom I have had the privilege to serve with. As a non-cult group member I have observed that within Intergroup/Region and Conference the guys and gals from the cult groups that I have been on committees with have displayed an incredible disdain for the rest of the Fellowship. I have seen Intergroup meetings where the RTR [Road to Recovery - cult group based in Plymouth area] group representatives have all sat together and voted as a block vote. There has been no attempt to chat to other members and have some shared experience.
Now consider the experience of the cult group membership whom I have had the privilege to serve with. As a non-cult group member I have observed that within Intergroup/Region and Conference the guys and gals from the cult groups that I have been on committees with have displayed an incredible disdain for the rest of the Fellowship. I have seen Intergroup meetings where the RTR [Road to Recovery - cult group based in Plymouth area] group representatives have all sat together and voted as a block vote. There has been no attempt to chat to other members and have some shared experience.
At the region meetings, time after time the RTR members would chip in with their own agenda and all back each other up, niggling away trying to persuade the rest of region that their ideas are right. Never allowing that they could be wrong. At the lunch break they would slink off together with their observer pals for lunch and a pow-wow, whilst other members would be getting to know each other in a friendly fellowship sort of way. Then after a break it would be back to the hard sell. RTR Plymouth almost destroyed the harmony of SW region.
Then onto Conference where the real sickness came into play, Cult delegates from different Regions actually banded together and voted as a block vote. At every opportunity the cults eat together and wander away for coffee together, never joining in with the wonderful fellowship afforded by the privilege of being a conference delegate. They even vote in a minority other than their own region’s opinion or conscience if it means backing there pals up.
To the observer the behaviour of cult members at Intergroup/Region and Conference borders on the ludicrous. Unfortunately when non-cult members are new in service it is very difficult for them to combat a solid block of cult members.
My observation is that compared to my experience of allowing myself to be sponsored by the Fellowship of AA in service, the cult members have made themselves----UNSPONSORABLE!"
Anon
10/10/08
How the cult carry their message: a member from Plymouth
Quote:
"Ref: AA South West cult Road to Recovery
I am …. and an alcoholic
I am an AA supporter of 3 years sobriety, however it was not always a smooth road. Due to the cult group in Plymouth (R to R) I relapsed (went back on the booze if you rather that term) after a 2.5 year dry period. I received text's saying I was going to die, when I say "I" my 15 year old son received them (anonymity eh???) and my business partner's wife received similar text's as well. Because I wouldn't devote my life to R to R and the weird ideals of the hierarchy (Waynes world) I was ignored, not allowed to go to other meetings and not allowed to share in R to R meetings, I went back on the drink for a year. After losing my Company, my job enduring a 2 week stay in hospital and 7 weeks in Rehab I returned to AA with more than a bit of worry. Unlike R to R, I found meetings where I was allowed to talk about rehab in the meetings, I was allowed to speak about ME, suddenly realized there is good out there in AA.
The R to R has deeply affected me and my family, the text's, phone calls, intimidation and bullying have scarred me and so, prevents me from being an enthusiastic member. I in fact vary rarely go to meetings now as I am afraid (petrified) of becoming so reliant on a group (that is the R to R idea) that I wont be allowed to function as an individual. The last comment may seem a bit extreme but its how things were run at the cult group mentioned.
I fully support the cause you are following these groups are not following the readings of the Big Book, they have their own agenda and are doing irreparable damage.
Thanks for listening"
I am …. and an alcoholic
I am an AA supporter of 3 years sobriety, however it was not always a smooth road. Due to the cult group in Plymouth (R to R) I relapsed (went back on the booze if you rather that term) after a 2.5 year dry period. I received text's saying I was going to die, when I say "I" my 15 year old son received them (anonymity eh???) and my business partner's wife received similar text's as well. Because I wouldn't devote my life to R to R and the weird ideals of the hierarchy (Waynes world) I was ignored, not allowed to go to other meetings and not allowed to share in R to R meetings, I went back on the drink for a year. After losing my Company, my job enduring a 2 week stay in hospital and 7 weeks in Rehab I returned to AA with more than a bit of worry. Unlike R to R, I found meetings where I was allowed to talk about rehab in the meetings, I was allowed to speak about ME, suddenly realized there is good out there in AA.
The R to R has deeply affected me and my family, the text's, phone calls, intimidation and bullying have scarred me and so, prevents me from being an enthusiastic member. I in fact vary rarely go to meetings now as I am afraid (petrified) of becoming so reliant on a group (that is the R to R idea) that I wont be allowed to function as an individual. The last comment may seem a bit extreme but its how things were run at the cult group mentioned.
I fully support the cause you are following these groups are not following the readings of the Big Book, they have their own agenda and are doing irreparable damage.
Thanks for listening"
Our reply:
"Dear ….
Thank you for your mail. We're sorry to hear about your experience but at least you now know that the Road to Recovery are not representative of AA or indeed, in our view, even AA groups at all. You are certainly not alone in respect to the kind of treatment that has been meted out to you by the cult groups and cult members; we have had reports of exactly the same conduct being exhibited towards newcomers (and not so new comers) by other such groups around the UK. All we can suggest is that you stick with AA and try and ensure that other newcomers are forewarned of these matters - and above all stay sober
Cheers
The Fellas"
Thank you for your mail. We're sorry to hear about your experience but at least you now know that the Road to Recovery are not representative of AA or indeed, in our view, even AA groups at all. You are certainly not alone in respect to the kind of treatment that has been meted out to you by the cult groups and cult members; we have had reports of exactly the same conduct being exhibited towards newcomers (and not so new comers) by other such groups around the UK. All we can suggest is that you stick with AA and try and ensure that other newcomers are forewarned of these matters - and above all stay sober
Cheers
The Fellas"
06/09/08
A public health warning – from the Road to Recovery
Recently one of our team drew the short straw and was allocated the task of browsing through the proliferating number of audio files that are appearing on the websites of various groups of individuals that claim to run AA meetings. The fellow who was assigned this task is renowned for his sheer laziness so we knew that we could not expect a through job to be conducted – in fact it’s a complete mystery to us that he’s managed to stay sober for over twenty years. We can only conclude that his Higher Power must be doing overtime. Anyway much to our surprise he confessed that he had actually listened to a few – mostly from the Sidcup Into Action and Road to Recovery sites. On the former site there was nothing of particular note to report; the talks were mostly fairly innocuous accounts that one might hear at any AA meeting that you would care to go to. There was a fair degree of repetition when it came to the references to the recovery process but nothing particularly untoward. But eventually he wended his weary way to the Road to Recovery site (the main cult group in Plymouth) and noticed that a certain chap in that group had had no less than three talks recorded for posterity – Wayne P. Clancy I and Alexis K were close seconds with two talks each and the other contributors, one a piece. From this our researcher concluded that this man was clearly the mainspring behind the group since his insights were so highly valued.
So sitting at his computer terminal in the wee small hours of the morning he played the file. It was not long before the message was communicated loud and clear and so eager are we to share this fellow’s insights with you that we even went to the bother of getting the relevant section transcribed. And here it is - Wayne’s intro:
"If you’re new or if you’re visiting this group – welcome. This group comes with a public health warning. Tonight you’re not in a meeting or mainstream meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. Tonight you are at the heart of Alcoholics Anonymous. If you want what we have you’ve got to do what we’ve done. If you’re not prepared to do it – just walk on by because there is nothing here for you. If you’re prepared to act on the information received then I promise you you will find a way of living sober and actually enjoying sobriety. That’s been my experience."
Welcome to Wayne’s World!
It quickly becomes indisputably clear that Wayne’s recovery in AA has been nothing short of miraculous. Not for Wayne the uncertain path of spiritual progress; bypassing the foolishness of mere mortals Wayne has proceeded like an Exocet missile to the goal of contented sobriety, guided of course by a sponsor. We are left in no doubt concerning the unquestioned superiority of his moral code to that of others – how do we know this? – well, Wayne tells us this is the case. Here is a fellow who could not sleep at night in the knowledge that he has an overdraft that might be causing a problem – or a debt that might not be immediately payable. Might the cause of his restlessness be an attack of economic insecurity? Perish the thought – no! Apparently, for Wayne, indebtedness is morally repugnant and the implication is clear – that such conduct is contrary to Wayne’s take on the programme and therefore should be adopted by the rest of us.
He goes on to expound on the love and tolerance theme – especially in respect of those critics of his particular way. We can only hope that his exhortations are more readily heeded by other stalwarts of the Road to Recovery group. We are thinking here particularly of two other supporters of that gang – namely Jon F and Alexis K (both of whom feature as other contributors to the Road to Recovery site). You may recall that these were the two members who behaved in a threatening fashion towards the General Secretary of AA (see "Conference Incident" for details). There did not seem to be too much love and tolerance there. Well as they say – these guys talk a good talk but….
So to return to Wayne’s experientially based insights. According to Wayne, and who are we to argue - The Road to Recovery is not an AA meeting, or not a mainstream AA meeting. In fact it is none other than the heart of AA. We’re not quite sure where that leaves the other 3,999 or so groups in the UK. The suggested programme in fact is not suggested at all: "If you want what we have you’ve got to do what we’ve done. If you’re not prepared to do it – just walk on by because there is nothing here for you." Or to paraphrase it in a rather crude fashion – do as you’re told or piss off! However if we fall into line we have Wayne’s personal assurance that all will be well – and the basis of that guarantee – Wayne’s own experience. No problem then.
We’d love to hear your thoughts on this beauty.
While we’re down in the South West here’s a contribution from a member down that way:
"Hi Fellas, Just wanted to say that i found the primary purpous 2007 convention London on xa speakers web site. A web site designed to play AA speakers over the net. I listened to the first speaker and guess what? He spoke such utter garbage that i could only take 2 minutes of his crap!. What
"Hi Fellas, Just wanted to say that i found the primary purpous 2007 convention London on xa speakers web site. A web site designed to play AA speakers over the net. I listened to the first speaker and guess what? He spoke such utter garbage that i could only take 2 minutes of his crap!. What
a donkey, as we say in Dorset. Keep at it, doing a fine job.
By the way, check out the share magazine for july. See the article Tradition 7 by Chriss s of Plymouth. Second column second paragraph. "As we got on with the program, freely given to us,our sponsors guided us into work.Material things became available to us and we were able to put a bit more into the pot."
Now fellas, my contact in Plymouth assures me that the author is indeed a roadie. Can you guys show me anywhere in the AA program as practised by normal AAs where it says that our sponsors guide us into employment? I have read the sponsorship leaflet and indeed have personally sponsored over 30 men in my time in AA and never have i discussed their work with them. I tend to concentrate on the 12 steps and hopefully AA service.
By the way, the rtr were getting overlooked in general by the share team because they insisted on signing the article--so and so Road to recovery group plymouth and of course they inendated the share team with an avalanch of articles. Now i notice they have changed tack and no lnger sign articles RTR. they had 5 in the july issue."
Cheers
The Fellas
4/08/08
180th Meeting of Plymouth Intergroup
Morley Centre, Plymstock, Sunday June 8th 2008-08-04
Well a lively time had by all by the sounds of it. Just a quick recap – Plymouth Road to Recovery is the name of the local cult group.
Those present:
Morley Centre, Plymstock, Sunday June 8th 2008-08-04
Well a lively time had by all by the sounds of it. Just a quick recap – Plymouth Road to Recovery is the name of the local cult group.
Those present:
Name Group Position
JB Road to Recovery Chair
AT Road to Recovery Secretary
MT Tavistock Vice Chair
CS Road to Recovery Treasurer
RH Back to Basics ELO
LD New Beginning Region Rep
IC Road to Recovery Probation Liaison
PF Tavistock Telephone Liaison
KE Road to Recovery Health Liaison Officer
AJ Kingsbridge Share & Where to Find
AW Road to Recovery PI Officer
AP Road to Recovery Prison Liaison Officer
GSRs:
CC Road to Recovery
TM Saltash
PW Living Sober
JJ Back to Basics (Friday & Sunday)
CS Back to Basics (Wednesday)
SC First Things First
JS Altered Attitudes
DD Stoke Methodist
JH Our Primary Purpose
HWS Tavistock
PN Stoke Monday
JR University Meeting
CL Joys of Recovery
AJB Lee Mill New Beginning
GL Kingsbridge
Observers:
T Joys of Recovery
BA Living Sober
JH Back to Basics
TA Road to Recovery
TG Road to Recovery
PY Road to Recovery
AH Road to Recovery
RB Road to Recovery
CD Road to Recovery
TB Road to Recovery
JP Road to Recovery
LL Road to Recovery
LJ Road to Recovery
MB Road to Recovery
ET Road to Recovery
DS Joys of Recovery
JP Road to Recovery
Editor’s comment: We’ll leave the counting to you but there do seem to be a few R 2 R members present – it’s called “packing” – very effective as an intimidatory tactic much employed by the cult.
Now this is where it gets a little bit complicated – but to summarise – Plymouth Intergroup is pretty obviously infested with the cult. AA members in the area are actually trying to do something about it (maybe West and East Kent Intergroups should pay attention here!).
[ ] indicate editor’s interpolations.
Minutes and Matters Arising:
“B [AA member] wished to log an appeal to Intergroup for not ratifying him as Region Rep.” [B is not a cult member hence the opposition – they are trying to get their own regional reps voted in – and not succeeding]
“A JB [AA member]… then read out her group report and Catherine [cult member] objected it going into the minutes. L [cult member and observer – maybe he just forgot that he was just there to observe] said that to call Road to Recovery ‘separatists who won’t do service with other AA members’ is laughable.
“There was a discussion over whether or not the Lee Mill report criticising one particular group [Road to Recovery cult group] should be included in the minutes. The Chair [cult member] said we cannot sensor [sic] reports [well not yet anyway – he seems to have changed his mind later]
Chair’s Report
“I was alarmed last week to discover that a member of this Intergroup had seen fit to publish the attendance record of our last meeting, on a non-Conference-approved website: a website dedicated wholeheartedly to the destruction of Traditions 1 & 4.”
Now we’re not absolutely sure about this but we think he might be talking about us. The problem is that, strange as it may seem, most of the websites on the net are not actually “Conference-approved” since pretty well nobody needs to check with Conference about what is published via that medium. The other amusing thing about the Chair’s comments is that he refers to Traditions 1 and 4. This is something of a rarity for the cult – and when they do mention these their interpretation seems, shall we say, rather selective. So yes - we are a non-Conference approved website and no - we’re not devoted to the destruction of the Traditions – rather the opposite in fact – but certainly devoted to the removal of the cult infestation within Alcoholics Anonymous – he goes on:
“Could I remind all members that whilst the minutes of this meeting are not a secret, the publishing of them on the Internet without first seeking permission could at best offend and at worst cause deep resentment, especially when they are misprinted and quoted out of context.”
First question – whose permission? The Chair? The cult? We guess that the person who sent us the minutes gave us permission since they are a member of AA and not the cult. As for misprints – well sometimes the typing goes a bit awry but not much – and the context is pretty clear we think – hardly any ambiguities about the cult infiltration of Plymouth Intergroup – as for any resentment caused – a small price to pay perhaps to alleviate the suffering of newcomers who are the prime objects of the cult’s fundamentalist dogma and abuse – to continue:
“I would also like to remind members that the right place to bring their grievances about the nature and composition of Intergroup is here, and was infact at the Group Conscience at our last meeting. To not do so, but then to publish your grievance in a format available across the world, is not only the pinnacle of moral cowardice but a betrayal of all who can be bothered to come here and participate.
Let the whisperers come forward and speak, so that we may have the right to reply.
Yours in Fellowship,
JB”
What a pretty speech! But perhaps a few inaccuracies and misconceptions. Firstly we would like to remind the Chairman about that little detail – “trusted servants” – “they do not govern” – it’s in the Traditions – we forget which one now - so the Chairman is in no position to tell any AA member the how and when of the matter. Apparently, we have achieved the “pinnacle of moral cowardice” – we don’t think so – we think that that particular height has been won already by those cult members and groups who prey on the most vulnerable of AA members – the newcomers – and we would rather characterise that as a nadir rather than any kind of zenith. As for publishing this material on the web it seems to us a most apposite medium given the nature of the problem. The cult is present locally, nationally and even internationally; the web is an ideal mechanism for exposing its activities. Finally we think that a small detail might have slipped the Chairman’s attention – far from “whisperers” a letter (which was published on this site) was forwarded to him detailing an AA member’s objections to the behaviour of cult members to which he has given no response. This letter was signed in full by the member concerned. So it would seem that even bellowing into the ear of Chairman fails to attract his attention. However we seem to have achieved that objective and will continue to do so in the future. Of course what it boils down to is the cult can’t control us and they can’t control our exposure of their conduct – and they really, really don’t like that at all.
Finally he signs off “Yours in Fellowship” – now which Fellowship would that be?
PS – we almost forgot:
“On reflection: the Chair has decided that statements of an inflammatory nature that break the Traditions & The Concepts will not be included in the minutes” [Ah! Censorship is back in fashion! That didn’t take long did it!]
Treasurer’s Report
Issues Raised:
“Catherine [cult member] suggested that we hold donations to Region, in the light of their not letting observers speak and refusing to vote in Officers. Les (Region Rep) [AA member –and who has already been on the receiving end of the cult’s bullying tactics] said that some of these issues will be addressed in his report, so we could discuss them after he had read it. Chair agreed.”
To our mind this looks like a great opportunity for Region to stop accepting funds from an outside organisation ie the cult.
Probation Liaison Officer’s Report [cult member]
There follows a brief outline of action to be taken which includes the following statement: “All suggested activities are to be checked out with the relevant trusted servants before being put forward. Once he has approved the list, then we can move forward with more awareness raising of the Fellowship and what it can do for the still-suffering alcoholic” We’re just curious to know who this “trusted servant” might be given the nature of the Probation Liaison Officer’s membership of the cult. We will be looking shortly at the cult’s involvement in outside agencies as part of their strategy to promote their destructive message beyond AA.
PI Officer’s Report [cult member]
Issues Raised:
“A JB again said that certain groups don’t do service with members from other groups” [ie Road to Recovery] [This statement was refuted by the Probation Liaison Officer on behalf of himself, the PI officer, the Prison Liaison Officer – all cult members]
Prison Liaison Officer’s Report [cult member]
Again there follows a brief account of what is going on in the local bang up – a pretty little establishment called HMP Dartmoor. Apparently “There seems to be a lot more inmates sharing on a positive note and all seem to be keen to attend AA on their release”. On of the key characteristics of the cult is its obsession with positivity. This quality, admirable as it no doubt is in its respective place, takes a much higher priority than honesty in the cult’s values. Frankly given the nature of the establishment and the “ambiance” honesty is a pretty rare commodity and probably a better indicator of an individual’s commitment than the “happy clappy” stance adopted by the cult groups and members. Further it seems that “2 guys are both attending meetings in their home towns. I spoke to them both yesterday [no doubt hitting his two newcomers a day target]; they have sponsors and have not picked up alcohol to date”. We hope they are AA sponsors and not cult.
Now we come to the high? low? point of the proceedings – the Region Rep’s Report (See Appendix 2) Stick with it! You can read the whole thing if you really try! [sorry about all the initials]
Issues raised:
“Chair [cult member] asked LD (Region Rep) [AA member] how he voted for B [cult member]. LDsaid that 14 people abstained. Chair said that the only people at Region allowed to speak are Region Reps and Officers, and he asked why LD voted against NK. LD said he voted for someone with a longer service CV, whom he felt was better for the position.
JB Road to Recovery Chair
AT Road to Recovery Secretary
MT Tavistock Vice Chair
CS Road to Recovery Treasurer
RH Back to Basics ELO
LD New Beginning Region Rep
IC Road to Recovery Probation Liaison
PF Tavistock Telephone Liaison
KE Road to Recovery Health Liaison Officer
AJ Kingsbridge Share & Where to Find
AW Road to Recovery PI Officer
AP Road to Recovery Prison Liaison Officer
GSRs:
CC Road to Recovery
TM Saltash
PW Living Sober
JJ Back to Basics (Friday & Sunday)
CS Back to Basics (Wednesday)
SC First Things First
JS Altered Attitudes
DD Stoke Methodist
JH Our Primary Purpose
HWS Tavistock
PN Stoke Monday
JR University Meeting
CL Joys of Recovery
AJB Lee Mill New Beginning
GL Kingsbridge
Observers:
T Joys of Recovery
BA Living Sober
JH Back to Basics
TA Road to Recovery
TG Road to Recovery
PY Road to Recovery
AH Road to Recovery
RB Road to Recovery
CD Road to Recovery
TB Road to Recovery
JP Road to Recovery
LL Road to Recovery
LJ Road to Recovery
MB Road to Recovery
ET Road to Recovery
DS Joys of Recovery
JP Road to Recovery
Editor’s comment: We’ll leave the counting to you but there do seem to be a few R 2 R members present – it’s called “packing” – very effective as an intimidatory tactic much employed by the cult.
Now this is where it gets a little bit complicated – but to summarise – Plymouth Intergroup is pretty obviously infested with the cult. AA members in the area are actually trying to do something about it (maybe West and East Kent Intergroups should pay attention here!).
[ ] indicate editor’s interpolations.
Minutes and Matters Arising:
“B [AA member] wished to log an appeal to Intergroup for not ratifying him as Region Rep.” [B is not a cult member hence the opposition – they are trying to get their own regional reps voted in – and not succeeding]
“A JB [AA member]… then read out her group report and Catherine [cult member] objected it going into the minutes. L [cult member and observer – maybe he just forgot that he was just there to observe] said that to call Road to Recovery ‘separatists who won’t do service with other AA members’ is laughable.
“There was a discussion over whether or not the Lee Mill report criticising one particular group [Road to Recovery cult group] should be included in the minutes. The Chair [cult member] said we cannot sensor [sic] reports [well not yet anyway – he seems to have changed his mind later]
Chair’s Report
“I was alarmed last week to discover that a member of this Intergroup had seen fit to publish the attendance record of our last meeting, on a non-Conference-approved website: a website dedicated wholeheartedly to the destruction of Traditions 1 & 4.”
Now we’re not absolutely sure about this but we think he might be talking about us. The problem is that, strange as it may seem, most of the websites on the net are not actually “Conference-approved” since pretty well nobody needs to check with Conference about what is published via that medium. The other amusing thing about the Chair’s comments is that he refers to Traditions 1 and 4. This is something of a rarity for the cult – and when they do mention these their interpretation seems, shall we say, rather selective. So yes - we are a non-Conference approved website and no - we’re not devoted to the destruction of the Traditions – rather the opposite in fact – but certainly devoted to the removal of the cult infestation within Alcoholics Anonymous – he goes on:
“Could I remind all members that whilst the minutes of this meeting are not a secret, the publishing of them on the Internet without first seeking permission could at best offend and at worst cause deep resentment, especially when they are misprinted and quoted out of context.”
First question – whose permission? The Chair? The cult? We guess that the person who sent us the minutes gave us permission since they are a member of AA and not the cult. As for misprints – well sometimes the typing goes a bit awry but not much – and the context is pretty clear we think – hardly any ambiguities about the cult infiltration of Plymouth Intergroup – as for any resentment caused – a small price to pay perhaps to alleviate the suffering of newcomers who are the prime objects of the cult’s fundamentalist dogma and abuse – to continue:
“I would also like to remind members that the right place to bring their grievances about the nature and composition of Intergroup is here, and was infact at the Group Conscience at our last meeting. To not do so, but then to publish your grievance in a format available across the world, is not only the pinnacle of moral cowardice but a betrayal of all who can be bothered to come here and participate.
Let the whisperers come forward and speak, so that we may have the right to reply.
Yours in Fellowship,
JB”
What a pretty speech! But perhaps a few inaccuracies and misconceptions. Firstly we would like to remind the Chairman about that little detail – “trusted servants” – “they do not govern” – it’s in the Traditions – we forget which one now - so the Chairman is in no position to tell any AA member the how and when of the matter. Apparently, we have achieved the “pinnacle of moral cowardice” – we don’t think so – we think that that particular height has been won already by those cult members and groups who prey on the most vulnerable of AA members – the newcomers – and we would rather characterise that as a nadir rather than any kind of zenith. As for publishing this material on the web it seems to us a most apposite medium given the nature of the problem. The cult is present locally, nationally and even internationally; the web is an ideal mechanism for exposing its activities. Finally we think that a small detail might have slipped the Chairman’s attention – far from “whisperers” a letter (which was published on this site) was forwarded to him detailing an AA member’s objections to the behaviour of cult members to which he has given no response. This letter was signed in full by the member concerned. So it would seem that even bellowing into the ear of Chairman fails to attract his attention. However we seem to have achieved that objective and will continue to do so in the future. Of course what it boils down to is the cult can’t control us and they can’t control our exposure of their conduct – and they really, really don’t like that at all.
Finally he signs off “Yours in Fellowship” – now which Fellowship would that be?
PS – we almost forgot:
“On reflection: the Chair has decided that statements of an inflammatory nature that break the Traditions & The Concepts will not be included in the minutes” [Ah! Censorship is back in fashion! That didn’t take long did it!]
Treasurer’s Report
Issues Raised:
“Catherine [cult member] suggested that we hold donations to Region, in the light of their not letting observers speak and refusing to vote in Officers. Les (Region Rep) [AA member –and who has already been on the receiving end of the cult’s bullying tactics] said that some of these issues will be addressed in his report, so we could discuss them after he had read it. Chair agreed.”
To our mind this looks like a great opportunity for Region to stop accepting funds from an outside organisation ie the cult.
Probation Liaison Officer’s Report [cult member]
There follows a brief outline of action to be taken which includes the following statement: “All suggested activities are to be checked out with the relevant trusted servants before being put forward. Once he has approved the list, then we can move forward with more awareness raising of the Fellowship and what it can do for the still-suffering alcoholic” We’re just curious to know who this “trusted servant” might be given the nature of the Probation Liaison Officer’s membership of the cult. We will be looking shortly at the cult’s involvement in outside agencies as part of their strategy to promote their destructive message beyond AA.
PI Officer’s Report [cult member]
Issues Raised:
“A JB again said that certain groups don’t do service with members from other groups” [ie Road to Recovery] [This statement was refuted by the Probation Liaison Officer on behalf of himself, the PI officer, the Prison Liaison Officer – all cult members]
Prison Liaison Officer’s Report [cult member]
Again there follows a brief account of what is going on in the local bang up – a pretty little establishment called HMP Dartmoor. Apparently “There seems to be a lot more inmates sharing on a positive note and all seem to be keen to attend AA on their release”. On of the key characteristics of the cult is its obsession with positivity. This quality, admirable as it no doubt is in its respective place, takes a much higher priority than honesty in the cult’s values. Frankly given the nature of the establishment and the “ambiance” honesty is a pretty rare commodity and probably a better indicator of an individual’s commitment than the “happy clappy” stance adopted by the cult groups and members. Further it seems that “2 guys are both attending meetings in their home towns. I spoke to them both yesterday [no doubt hitting his two newcomers a day target]; they have sponsors and have not picked up alcohol to date”. We hope they are AA sponsors and not cult.
Now we come to the high? low? point of the proceedings – the Region Rep’s Report (See Appendix 2) Stick with it! You can read the whole thing if you really try! [sorry about all the initials]
Issues raised:
“Chair [cult member] asked LD (Region Rep) [AA member] how he voted for B [cult member]. LDsaid that 14 people abstained. Chair said that the only people at Region allowed to speak are Region Reps and Officers, and he asked why LD voted against NK. LD said he voted for someone with a longer service CV, whom he felt was better for the position.
Chair said that in all his 7 years at Intergroup he had never once seen LD, and Intergroup asked him to do something and he didn’t. He said that he [the chair] is truly disappointed and will bring a vote of no confidence [ie cult is not getting its way].
AJB (AA) said that LD had used his Right of Decision. BA [AA member] said that although 2 Region Reps were previously voted out of service for doing this, this case is different because of the additional information that came to light.
CC [cult member] said that she did not have to give her CV to LD, and that it needs to go to the Region Secretary. She also said that it is the RR’s job to give report to Intergroup. She said that NK [cult] is going for the Share & Where to Find and that he doesn’t need Intergroup’s backing. She said that Intergroup and Region are railroading to get Road to Recovery members out of service [you don’t get much passed CC!] Chair [cult] told AJB [AA] to not butt in and tell him how to chair the meeting. PN [AA] said that as he said in the last minutes, Region Reps get voted in at one meeting and out in the next – we need to sort this out.
CS [cult] said that he was concerned about what was said at last Region (read Guidelines) he said that he and CC [cult] both had their hands up and were not allowed to vote, and that only Region Reps and Region Officers were allowed to speak.
CS [cult] said that he was concerned about what was said at last Region (read Guidelines) he said that he and CC [cult] both had their hands up and were not allowed to vote, and that only Region Reps and Region Officers were allowed to speak.
AJ (Kingsbridge [AA] group) said that the Region Chair’s attitude was of a bullying nature.
IC [cult] said that LD did exactly the same thing as he did as a Region Rep
and so the same thing should happen.
MB [cult member and observer] said that NK [cult] could have been voted in as Region Rep, but was blocked time after time [take the hint]. Then when he finally got Intergroup’s backing, he was again blocked at Region [still not got it?] MB said that he sees this as railroading. [how “laughable” to quote LL (cult)]. BA [AA] said that the additional information that was available makes this a different case to the last time Region Reps voted with their own conscience. CC [cult] that it is not right to have one rule for one Region Rep and a different one for others. She said that Intergroup had decided it wanted Region Reps to just be messengers.
GL [AA] said that we could stop all this now.
AJ [AA] said that LD did the right thing, but the Intergroup changed the rules – she asked if this had been voted on.
Chair said that he tries to keep his views out of it, but that today it has been difficult [brave little soldier].
AP [cult] wanted to know if LD keeps his position, do we then set a precedent for Region Reps to use their right of decision in future?
LD said that he had asked CC [cult] for her CV because he knew that this way he would have a chance to read it himself. H said that he had never said anything derogatory about any group. He said that used to come to Intergroup years ago but stopped because of the bad atmosphere [can’t say we blame him]. He said that Intergroup voted for him and so he tried to do his best. He said that it [sic] the Concepts it says that he does not have to be a messenger, and that he had voted for the best person for the job.
Chair put forward the motion: “Vote of Confidence for LD”, seconded by MT [AA] Vice Chair.
Several Officers & GSRs spoke without going through the Chair and he said that the next person who did that would be asked to leave.
Electoral College: 25
Result: 24 for and 1 against: carried.”
LD lives to fight another day.
Chair apologised to LD and CC.
It carries on a bit more and then:
“AJB [AA] said that she resented being told what to do and that she is already doing service.
Several Officers & GSRs spoke without going through the Chair and he said that the next person who did that would be asked to leave.
Electoral College: 25
Result: 24 for and 1 against: carried.”
LD lives to fight another day.
Chair apologised to LD and CC.
It carries on a bit more and then:
“AJB [AA] said that she resented being told what to do and that she is already doing service.
CS [cult] said that he was concerned that Region did not want to hear what Plymouth has to say, and suggested withholding funds from Region [see our comment above].
Chair [cult] said that he was not happy with Region not allowing members to speak. BA [AA] said that he felt Intergroup should talk to Region first before withholding money. CL [AA] agreed.
Chair said that we just gave LD the vote of confidence, so let him try and resolve this.”
Nominations:
IC [cult] nominated TA [cult] for ELO and was seconded by AT [cult].
AP [cult] nominated NK [cult] for Region Rep and was seconded by AT [cult].
LD [AA] asked if NK [cult] was still going for Share & Where to Find at Region.
Nominations:
IC [cult] nominated TA [cult] for ELO and was seconded by AT [cult].
AP [cult] nominated NK [cult] for Region Rep and was seconded by AT [cult].
LD [AA] asked if NK [cult] was still going for Share & Where to Find at Region.
CC [cult] replied that NK [cult] is just trying to do service and is keen to serve Alcoholics Anonymous [we think not].
KE [cult] nominated CC [cult] for Region Rep, seconded by IC [cult].”
Any Other Business
AP [cult] expressed his concern about the Lee Mill report going into the minutes.
KE [cult] nominated CC [cult] for Region Rep, seconded by IC [cult].”
Any Other Business
AP [cult] expressed his concern about the Lee Mill report going into the minutes.
LL [observer and cult] said that GSRs should think about this: is it right to bring a grudge list? [why not – that was the Chair’s advice we seem to recall].
AJ [AA] said that she was also unhappy about it, and that it was purely subjective.” [most judgements are – they can hardly fail to be]
Appendix 2
Report on AA Regional meeting held at Exeter June 1st 2008
You’ll be delighted to hear we are not going to represent the whole thing. So:
“The chair opened by stating that he would only hear from voting representatives and other speakers would be heard only by invitation from the chair” [this policy has largely been adopted because of the nuisance tactics of cult members attending these meetings – see elsewhere on site for details]
Business Meeting
“30 voting Officers 2/3 majority 20
Chairman repeated his observations that only voting officers to speak and anyone else by invitation only;”
“There were two nominations for HLO NK [cult] and P [AA]
P had 26 votes NK had 4
P was therefore voted in as Regional Health Liaison Officer.
In view of her impressive record of service and experience within AA, I, on reflection thought these skills and experience made her the best candidate for the job and so voted for P.
Appendix 2
Report on AA Regional meeting held at Exeter June 1st 2008
You’ll be delighted to hear we are not going to represent the whole thing. So:
“The chair opened by stating that he would only hear from voting representatives and other speakers would be heard only by invitation from the chair” [this policy has largely been adopted because of the nuisance tactics of cult members attending these meetings – see elsewhere on site for details]
Business Meeting
“30 voting Officers 2/3 majority 20
Chairman repeated his observations that only voting officers to speak and anyone else by invitation only;”
“There were two nominations for HLO NK [cult] and P [AA]
P had 26 votes NK had 4
P was therefore voted in as Regional Health Liaison Officer.
In view of her impressive record of service and experience within AA, I, on reflection thought these skills and experience made her the best candidate for the job and so voted for P.
B [cult] who was nominated as TLO was unsuccessful and failed to get the necessary 2/3 majority.
CC [cult] was put forward by me as the Plymouth Intergroup nominee for the position of Regional PI. This was accepted and will be voted on at the next Regional Meeting. I was unable to pass on CC’s CV as she wouldn’t give it to me. She deemed it to be “vital” that she read it to the meeting herself. When she asked to speak this was refused by the chair [it’s called grandstanding!]. I have no personal knowledge of where her CV is.”
Finally and we’re sure that you will be relieved to hear this – we’re coming to the end of this marathon:
“There was a nomination by someone from the floor that NK [cult] should take over the Share Liaison position currently held by A. This was seconded by someone else from the floor. Naturally this nomination will be voted on at the next Regional meeting.
At no time prior to the nomination was this matter made known to me. I have no knowledge of either the person proposing or the person seconding the motion. It seems safe to say that no one in Plymouth Intergroup had knowledge or discussion about this nomination.
It would therefore appear on face value to be a straight forward attempt to hijack and bypass established procedures and to railroad people into position with no regard for either the unity of AA, Intergroup its elected officers or the GSRs who are the backbone of AA [someone pass this information on to West Kent Intergroup – especially the Secretary].
We have a very clear structure to ensure that members of AA have a choice; GSR, Intergroup, Region and so on, and I should make it clear that intergroup support for nominations is not mandatory. However it is very relevant in terms of helping members to come to decisions when it comes to voting.”
That’s it for now folks
Cheers
The Fellas
Finally and we’re sure that you will be relieved to hear this – we’re coming to the end of this marathon:
“There was a nomination by someone from the floor that NK [cult] should take over the Share Liaison position currently held by A. This was seconded by someone else from the floor. Naturally this nomination will be voted on at the next Regional meeting.
At no time prior to the nomination was this matter made known to me. I have no knowledge of either the person proposing or the person seconding the motion. It seems safe to say that no one in Plymouth Intergroup had knowledge or discussion about this nomination.
It would therefore appear on face value to be a straight forward attempt to hijack and bypass established procedures and to railroad people into position with no regard for either the unity of AA, Intergroup its elected officers or the GSRs who are the backbone of AA [someone pass this information on to West Kent Intergroup – especially the Secretary].
We have a very clear structure to ensure that members of AA have a choice; GSR, Intergroup, Region and so on, and I should make it clear that intergroup support for nominations is not mandatory. However it is very relevant in terms of helping members to come to decisions when it comes to voting.”
That’s it for now folks
Cheers
The Fellas
18/07/08
How Bournemouth Intergroup came to exclude the Road to Recovery group from its service structure
Another contribution from the South West
"A few years ago Matt D, a ‘Roadie’ [Road to Recovery member] from Plymouth moved to Bournemouth. Matt and 2 or 3 others started an NA group in Poole. Matt was sponsored by Wayne P from the Road to Recovery [cult group] in Plymouth. It was rumoured that the NA group had ties with the RTR Plymouth. Some of the elder members in Bournemouth had had experience of the difficulties in doing service with the RTR members at South West region and were sceptical of the denials made by Matt D and others of any link between the 2 groups (or indeed the 2 Fellowships). After the NA group had been going a year or so the South West region held a Pre Conference day in Bournemouth at which members from AA all across the South West were invited to attend to meet the delegates. During the day two interesting things happened regarding the RTR and the NA group. Firstly, the region secretary Mary Mc was chatting with 2 or 3 other members of region when a young lady from the NA group approached her, Mary broke off her conversation to embrace the NA girl. When she turned back to the other region members she said "that was one of our group in Bournemouth". To which a quick-witted member replied, "but you don’t have a group in Bournemouth". The second thing of real concern to Bournemouth Intergroup was that after lunch a posse of the NA members from Poole turned up. An AA member Mark J (a local GSR) brought a newcomer along. Mark left the newcomer outside drinking coffee and chatting. When Mark J returned a while later the newcomer was visibly upset. He showed Mark a business type card with Wayne P’s telephone number on it. The newcomer had been targeted by the NA crowd and whilst they were trying to 12 step him (sic) Wayne P had approached and suggested to the AA newcomer that he go off with the NA crowd as they would get him sober. Wayne had then given his contact details to the newcomer. Mark J brought this unethical move by Wayne P and his NA pals to the attention of the next Intergroup meeting. Bournemouth Intergroup instructed the Chairman of the time Nigel to write to Wayne P at the RTR group expressing their dismay at his conduct in encouraging an AA newcomer to go off with a bunch of NA members at an AA service workshop. Nigel wrote to Wayne P and Wayne replied that it was none of Bournemouth Intergroup’s business how he 12 stepped anyone. He suggested that Bournemouth Intergroup was an uninformed assembly. The following few months saw the opening of a RTR AA group in Bournemouth by none other than the Wayne P sponsored Matt D. The chairman of Intergroup was well aware of much anxiety about this particular style of AA within the local area. The RTR had applied to join Intergroup at the next meeting. Nigel decided to appoint a committee of 4 experienced local members to consider the RTR application. The committee was chaired by Ron G Conference delegate. Ron took no part in any discussion but simply chaired the meeting. The one-off committee took its work very seriously and did not come to any decision lightly. After 3 hours of debate and sharing experience of the RTR type AA influencing Region and Plymouth IG and notwithstanding that all committee members had visited the Bournemouth RTR group themselves, the committee decided that in their experience the RTR style AA ie overloading committees with there own members etc, was not a good way forward for the Bournemouth Intergroup Service Structure. Therefore the recommendation of the committee to Intergroup was that the RTR be excluded from the Intergroup service structure….[on the grounds that] the RTR group would be divisive and controversial…, but be wished well as an AA group. Intergroup accepted the recommendation unanimously."
Editor’s comment: So it would seem that if AA members work together and TAKE ACTION then the cult groups can be denied access to Intergroups. (We note the generosity of spirit of the Intergroup in wishing the RTR “AA” (?) group well – you can be quite sure however that it will not be reciprocated). The same principle applies to AA groups (as indicated in the section Cult Proofing) – groups may decide in full accordance with the Traditions and guidelines to exclude members from holding office in a group, voting in group consciences etc and thereby deprive the cult of the means of gaining control of that part of the AA service structure – BUT GROUPS CANNOT EXCLUDE ANYONE FROM ATTENDING ANY MEETING SO LONG AS THEY HAVE A DESIRE TO STOP DRINKING. It’s quite simple – prevent cult members from infiltrating AA groups – stop cult groups getting access to Intergroups (no access as a group means no GSR representation) – and no access as Intergroup officers (as long as they continue to have voting rights in Intergroup – a questionable and undemocratic privilege) thereby preventing cult members becoming region reps and conference delegates. This does not mean of course that the cult will go away. They will continue to set up their own groups and proceed with their own agenda – but gradually they will be obliged to construct their own service structure (as they are proposing to do in Bournemouth), their own conventions (as they have already done in Plymouth and Canterbury), their own public information functions (as they have already done in both East and West Kent). But they will no longer be able to claim that they have sanction of AA and any attempt by them to continue to use the AA name to cover their activities will be rendered invalid.
Over to you.
The Fellas
Editor’s comment: So it would seem that if AA members work together and TAKE ACTION then the cult groups can be denied access to Intergroups. (We note the generosity of spirit of the Intergroup in wishing the RTR “AA” (?) group well – you can be quite sure however that it will not be reciprocated). The same principle applies to AA groups (as indicated in the section Cult Proofing) – groups may decide in full accordance with the Traditions and guidelines to exclude members from holding office in a group, voting in group consciences etc and thereby deprive the cult of the means of gaining control of that part of the AA service structure – BUT GROUPS CANNOT EXCLUDE ANYONE FROM ATTENDING ANY MEETING SO LONG AS THEY HAVE A DESIRE TO STOP DRINKING. It’s quite simple – prevent cult members from infiltrating AA groups – stop cult groups getting access to Intergroups (no access as a group means no GSR representation) – and no access as Intergroup officers (as long as they continue to have voting rights in Intergroup – a questionable and undemocratic privilege) thereby preventing cult members becoming region reps and conference delegates. This does not mean of course that the cult will go away. They will continue to set up their own groups and proceed with their own agenda – but gradually they will be obliged to construct their own service structure (as they are proposing to do in Bournemouth), their own conventions (as they have already done in Plymouth and Canterbury), their own public information functions (as they have already done in both East and West Kent). But they will no longer be able to claim that they have sanction of AA and any attempt by them to continue to use the AA name to cover their activities will be rendered invalid.
Over to you.
The Fellas
16/07/08
Road to Recovery Conference Co-ordinator – a commentary from Bournemouth
This article refers to a ‘service position’ set up by the cult group Road to Recovery which is based in Plymouth. To quote from their website:
This article refers to a ‘service position’ set up by the cult group Road to Recovery which is based in Plymouth. To quote from their website:
The Road to Recovery Group of Alcoholics Anonymous,
Conference Co-ordinator guideline
The Road to Recovery group of Alcoholics Anonymous, Plymouth created the position of Conference Co-ordinator to help bring our Group closer to Conference. The Role of the GSR in the UK is very different to the role described in the twelve concepts, in fact the name is even different. In the UK GSR stands for "Group Service Representative" as opposed to its meaning in the World Service Handbook and twelve concepts "General Service Representative". In the UK the GSR does not elect its Conference Delegates, at a Regional meeting the groups are only indirectly represented by Three Region Reps who elect them for us. This adds an unneeded layer to the Conference structure. The Road to Recovery group therefore created the position of Group Conference Co-ordinator who effectively performs the same role that the GSR in the US structure performs, except that they do not have a vote at the Regional meeting. The Guideline that we use is published here in the hope that it will help bring other groups closer to Conference.
A couple of points before we go on to the personal experience of an ex-conference delegate:
First: reference is made to the US service structure – this is the UK.
Second: the UK service structure simply does not serve the goal of the cult as well as the US interpretation.
Remember the objective of the cult is to subvert AA and replace its message with its own dangerous dogma. Simple. Their concern is not greater democracy or accountability but increased cult influence and eventually control. Remember that! Now to our personal account:
“In the meantime check out the web site …..and you will see on the home page a link to Conference co-ordinator. This is a service position in the group that they made up all by themselves. No other group has such a position. In reading the guidelines (if you please!!) you will notice that there is no room for any new member doing the position to put their own slant on the job. Do it my way or the highway.
“In the meantime check out the web site …..and you will see on the home page a link to Conference co-ordinator. This is a service position in the group that they made up all by themselves. No other group has such a position. In reading the guidelines (if you please!!) you will notice that there is no room for any new member doing the position to put their own slant on the job. Do it my way or the highway.
When I was a conference delegate, we would have meetings of the delegates committee in the Southwest region. They were very good meetings, quite cosy, informative and intimate. Delegates could really get a feeling of bonding together as a team. If newer delegates were unsure of a point they could quite comfortably ask for the experience of the other members of the team.
One day at a meeting, a stranger appeared and without further ado sat in the corner of the room and began taking copious notes of all that was being discussed. After a while he was enquired as to who he was and what was he doing? He replied that he was the Conference co-ordinator for the Road to Recovery group from Plymouth. This caused some dismay among some of the delegates and alternate delegates in this intimate committee. Some of us, myself included, felt that we were being spied upon and that our every word could be reported back outside the committee. The level of trust and comfort that was in the room from years of service was immediately broken by this group’s uninvited representative. Notwithstanding that the Road to recovery had 2 members on the conference delegates team in the committee already, what was his agenda?
Objections were made at further meetings as to this new service position and the member being allowed in to the committee meetings, but the damage was done. The committee decided and carried a vote that all delegates’ meetings were open to observers and that every group in the Southwest was allowed to send an observer or Conference co-ordinator to the meetings.
In my experience no other group out of more than 300 in the Southwest has shown the slightest inclination to do so in over 4 years.
The Road to Recovery faithfully monitors every word in the delegates committees.”
So there you have it – either zealous enthusiasm on the part of ardent AA members or intrusive, ego-driven cult control freaks. We guess you probably know by now which interpretation we place on it
Cheers
So there you have it – either zealous enthusiasm on the part of ardent AA members or intrusive, ego-driven cult control freaks. We guess you probably know by now which interpretation we place on it
Cheers
The Fellas
01/07/08
Plymouth cult meetings – another breach of Tradition Four
In line with the cult policy of promoting their own meetings (see article: Margate Friday - 29/06/08) we have obtained a listing of the Plymouth cult groups (under the name of Road to Recovery) from their website which is in turn referred to in the AA website under the “Region and Local Websites” section.
Friday 7.30pm St Matthias Church Hall
Sunday 5.30pm St Matthias Church Hall
Sunday 6.45pm St Matthias Church Hall
Sunday 7.30pm St Matthias Church Hall
Tuesday 7.30pm The Church of Christ the King
Thursday 1.00pm Mutley Plain
[Please be aware that the cult meetings should not be confused with genuine AA meetings that use the same locations (which is why we have indicated the days and times)]
The AA website does carry the usual disclaimer relating to the inclusion of the Road to Recovery website details:
”……The content of this page is directly supplied by local A.A members. It is not published by or on behalf of the General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous(GB)”
Additionally the cult website does include reference to other local meetings in the area but only gives a contact number to that end on its Group Meetings page.
However we observe that the Region and Local Websites section of the AA website is predominantly used to give information on intergroups and regional assemblies together with listings of ALL groups that operate within those areas. Occasionally individual groups have set up their own website with meeting details. It is our view that there is already sufficient information on meetings made available in the main part of the AA website (under the meeting search engine) and that there should be no need for this to be supplemented by individual group websites. We feel that these sites amount to group promotion (which may be at the expense of other local groups in the area and therefore a breach of Tradition Four) and are completely unnecessary.
If it was the case that the Plymouth Road to Recovery cult is really interested in the well-being of the suffering alcoholic rather than its agenda of promoting itself then there should be no problem about including information relating to ALL the AA groups in the area – but then that isn’t going to happen is it?
Cheers
The Fellas
In line with the cult policy of promoting their own meetings (see article: Margate Friday - 29/06/08) we have obtained a listing of the Plymouth cult groups (under the name of Road to Recovery) from their website which is in turn referred to in the AA website under the “Region and Local Websites” section.
Friday 7.30pm St Matthias Church Hall
Sunday 5.30pm St Matthias Church Hall
Sunday 6.45pm St Matthias Church Hall
Sunday 7.30pm St Matthias Church Hall
Tuesday 7.30pm The Church of Christ the King
Thursday 1.00pm Mutley Plain
[Please be aware that the cult meetings should not be confused with genuine AA meetings that use the same locations (which is why we have indicated the days and times)]
The AA website does carry the usual disclaimer relating to the inclusion of the Road to Recovery website details:
”……The content of this page is directly supplied by local A.A members. It is not published by or on behalf of the General Service Board of Alcoholics Anonymous(GB)”
Additionally the cult website does include reference to other local meetings in the area but only gives a contact number to that end on its Group Meetings page.
However we observe that the Region and Local Websites section of the AA website is predominantly used to give information on intergroups and regional assemblies together with listings of ALL groups that operate within those areas. Occasionally individual groups have set up their own website with meeting details. It is our view that there is already sufficient information on meetings made available in the main part of the AA website (under the meeting search engine) and that there should be no need for this to be supplemented by individual group websites. We feel that these sites amount to group promotion (which may be at the expense of other local groups in the area and therefore a breach of Tradition Four) and are completely unnecessary.
If it was the case that the Plymouth Road to Recovery cult is really interested in the well-being of the suffering alcoholic rather than its agenda of promoting itself then there should be no problem about including information relating to ALL the AA groups in the area – but then that isn’t going to happen is it?
Cheers
The Fellas
27/06/08
While we happen to be down in the South West.......
Extract from the Regional Assembly minutes
Alcoholics Anonymous
Minutes of the 111th South West Region Assembly
Annual General Meeting
Sunday December 2nd 2007 – Held in Exeter
Any Other Business
Problems other than alcohol
Devon Central Intergroup reported that a GSR had informed Intergroup that her group… (quote) “has concerns about some of its members being told by group members of the Tuesday Road to Recovery group in Exeter that they must stop taking Prescribed Medication for diagnosed serious Mental Health illnesses. We are concerned that if newcomers follow this instruction their illness will worsen and in some cases could be a causal factor in their death. We are also concerned that our relationship with professional staff from The Mental Health Service will be irretrievably damaged if they have clients who have been given this instruction and the client’s mental health is damaged.”
The Region Assembly’s Conscience was asked for on this as a matter of urgency.
The Region Assembly’s Conscience was asked for on this as a matter of urgency.
Apparently the Intergroup had already concluded that "we are not doctors and can only deal with alcohol".
Some things just don't change....the cult's stance on the medication issue has changed not one bit - the same old same old. They just don't get it - meanwhile someone else - usually a newcomer - is paying the price. So Region can't do anything about it - Intergroup reiterates standard AA policy - so the question remains - what would YOU like to do about it?
The Fellas
27/06/08
Yet more news from the South West (see also article below dated 10/06/08)
We have been referred to the following information by a member from the south west. (downloaded from the South West Region website)
Please note the list of observers for the region Assembly. No less than 6 of the 15 atttending have been identified as members of the Plymouth cult group – the Road to Recovery. Additionally there are four more members also identified as being from the Plymouth area but not necessarily from that group. However we’d be prepared to put good money on the likelihood that most, if not all of them, are from the same group. This strategy would be entirely consistent with their behaviour in other AA assemblies of “packing” meetings with their adherents.
We have been referred to the following information by a member from the south west. (downloaded from the South West Region website)
Please note the list of observers for the region Assembly. No less than 6 of the 15 atttending have been identified as members of the Plymouth cult group – the Road to Recovery. Additionally there are four more members also identified as being from the Plymouth area but not necessarily from that group. However we’d be prepared to put good money on the likelihood that most, if not all of them, are from the same group. This strategy would be entirely consistent with their behaviour in other AA assemblies of “packing” meetings with their adherents.
Alcoholics Anonymous
Minutes of the 113th South West Region Assembly
Sunday June 1 2008 – Held in Exeter
Observers
PO (Bournemouth)
MC (Plymouth)
AK (Plymouth - Road to Recovery)
M (Devon Central)
MM (Plymouth)
CC (Plymouth – Road to Recovery)
JP (Plymouth – Road to Recovery)
SP (Bournemouth)
VC (Bournemouth)
CS (Plymouth – Road to Recovery)
JK (Barnstaple)
RB (Plymouth – Road to Recovery)
JP (Plymouth)
BB (Plymouth)
LL (Plymouth – Road to Recovery)
The section below (part of the Bournemouth IG report to Region Assembly) refers to the continued attempts by the local cult group (also called Road to Recovery) to gain representation in the Bournemouth Intergroup. They have been turned down in the past on the grounds of being “too controversial”. Not a lot of people know this …. but Intergroups can turn down applications from groups to join them – in the same fashion that AA groups can decide if someone may become a group member or not (see Cult Proofing and elsewhere on site for discussion on the difference between AA membership and membership of an AA group) – but no AA group can turn away anyone “who has a desire to stop drinking”.
Bournemouth and District Intergroup
Any Other Business.
Road to Recovery again requested that they be allowed into intergroup and requested that someone nominate and second them. When this was not forthcoming, they stated that they would be setting up their own telephone
and PI services.
Local “Where to finds” to be left “as is”.
For our part we think this is a very positive move on the part of the cult. Now all they need to do is to stop using the AA name and bringing our fellowship into disrepute.
Cheers
The Fellas
10/06/08
More news from the South West
One of our correspondents in the south west sent us the following letter (reproduced – original on file – his name included by consent). The contents most eloquently, lucidly and knowledgeably speak for themselves.
The letter is to the Plymouth Intergroup Chairman and is dated Saturday, 7th June, 2008.
The letter is to the Plymouth Intergroup Chairman and is dated Saturday, 7th June, 2008.
Sir,
Once again it has been my misfortune to witness yet further unacceptable behaviour of a person pretending to represent some agency apparently under the title of Road to Recovery Conference Committee Chairman, presumably attempting to give the impression that he held some office of Plymouth Intergroup as I understood it, the matter of his statement not being repeated quite loud enough for me to hear.
However, presumably his position will be clarified in the minutes, if they record the proceedings with accuracy. He being an unelected person the position is immaterial.
Continuously interrupting proceedings and demanding to know the why and the what of elected Delegates at Conference and their voting was tasteless at the very least. We are not gathered in forum to pander to the needs and wants of one group, the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth and you would do well to note this, being seemingly elected from this deviant group yourself.
Your man all by himself occupied more than three quarters of an hour of questioning and answering, poking and prying, and wanting to know the “Why” of such and such a vote, from every Delegate on every part of every question.
If he was sent on this occasion, as the lead irritant by the Road to Recovery Group, be assured his mission was successful, whilst we all sat quietly, as is the Alcoholics Anonymous way, in awe of his expertise.
For your information, and the education of the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth, unless there has been discussion at Group, Intergroup and Region on a particular subject and instructions specifically issued to a Conference Delegate, that Delegate has leeway to vote as he pleases, as is his or her right, under the auspices of the “Right of Decision” of appointed delegates where the need arises for the overall benefit of Alcoholics Anonymous, to disregard specific instructions where prudence and wisdom take the sway in forum, in Committee. Having heard all the information available from the Committee Delegates from other parts of the Country perhaps clarifying points unknown in the South West Region, the Conference Delegate is under no obligation to anyone, anywhere, to report how the voting went, or how he or she voted in a particular, to anyone, anywhere, ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, and most assuredly never under threat.
Even then, in Committee, our man even carrying specific instructions, it may be that clarification of a hazy point may be made that causes a change of heart and to be continuously badgered by your irritating amateur inquisitor at Region is not only out of order but pure ignorance. I noted that the Conference Delegates merely answered as a matter of courtesy.
This is the reason that the work is held in Committee, and from which gathering no-one need ever know of the voting. I would say, however, that if there is a close contest in a voting matter, where doubts may raise their heads as to the correctness of a decision, the standard practice in Alcoholics Anonymous is to put the matter back to the Groups for further consideration, normally with a written consideration in the Conference Report of the discussions, pro and con, so that correctness should be assured in the decisions always to the benefit of Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole with respect to the subject matter under discussion, and whilst the two thirds majority eventually in plenary session on the floor on Sunday is hardly mandatory in the true sense of the word, I have the feeling it is the way we all want it, the expression “Substantial majority” inherent in the procedure. Two thirds it is. One vote by a Representative at the Committee stage hardly swinging us into danger either way, and the demands made by your man on behalf of one little group nothing but grandstanding, a common fault of the Road to Recovery Group.
The Conference Delegate’s voice was heard in Committee, the matter was considered and a decision taken. End of story. There is no requirement to report back to one person from one group out of the 200 serviced by the Regional Assembly, and certainly not under direct threats.
To do this on every question from every Committee at Conference is taking both licence and displaying ignorance a degree beyond acceptable limits and I would be grateful if you would listen to my pleas to have the practice stopped.
Failing this, your ability to control this aberrant behaviour, perhaps in forum discussion with the Group Service Representatives of the Plymouth Intergroup to create a consensus of opinion with the suggestion of appointing one of your Regional Representatives to undertake the questioning task rather than a loose cannon from the floor being allowed to disrupt the proceedings for his own pleasure, continuously butting in in flagrant disregard of good manners and respect for the chair.
Licence to speak for visitors is only granted at the invitation of the Chairman in normal circumstances, and even with a little leeway allowed in questioning Conference Delegates one would expect the exercise to be conducted with some good manners, respect and decorum, and not as if they were International Terrorists.
I would respectfully suggest that you might like to have such questions put forward in future through your appointed Regional Representative.
It is not clear why one Group in Plymouth, presently existing on the periphery of Alcoholics Anonymous, and so far considered to be a Group within Alcoholics Anonymous at least for the time being, should have to take precedence by demand and by aggression over the other two hundred groups within the Region.
These 200-odd groups patiently await the publication of the Conference Report which will arrive in due course, and which is the normal way of Alcoholics Anonymous. Patience and understanding being the watchwords. Clearly the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth is devoid of this asset, in the flagrant display of their disgraceful conduct over the past three Regional Meetings that I have attended being deplorable in the kindest sense, and disgusting in the other. I have never seen such disgraceful behaviour, not even in the old Union Meetings in the blackness of the Forge at Alperton, and that was tough going, with really tough guys.
Shouting, aggressively gesturing and screaming at properly elected delegates to the assembly, and at the Chairman. Disgraceful.
So, too, within the minutes of the Regional Assembly at which this comic farce was played out, for all the rest of us these records will arrive in the fullness of time hopefully with a record of this unfortunate and irritating affair. For the rest of the groups throughout the Region of the South West of England this will be perfectly satisfactory.
On a further point of order, following the closure of the meeting, the elected Regional Representative of Plymouth who travelled back and forth with me out of Plymouth, and reported to me in the car on the return journey that he was verbally and all but physically attacked by this same person, after the meeting closed, demanding to know how he had voted in the earlier election, demanding a for or against comment. It should be common knowledge amongst real members of Alcoholics Anonymous that that is the very reason that the proposed persons are asked to leave the room during the voting, specifically so that they never know who voted for or against them within the forum, and such is also unacceptable behaviour.
No-one has this right to badger anyone else on this matter. It is not the way of Alcoholics Anonymous, and clearly since there is apparently no end to this aggravation I shall be asking not only Regional Assemblies throughout the South of England, with this letter, to discuss this matter at length, but yet again write to the Conference Questions Committee to place before Conference next year the observed and recorded, disgraceful behaviour of the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth, and others throughout the South of England, not only in the South West, to discuss their different principles and their deviations from the accepted programme of Alcoholics Anonymous, and to place this question especially on the agenda for discussion at Conference on whether as a Group they are suited to remain members of Alcoholics Anonymous.
This never to forget the unforgivable direct attack on the General Secretary of Alcoholics Anonymous at conference three times back. A woman. Goodness gracious me ! – and have to be hauled off her.
This is not the Alcoholics Anonymous way.
No-one may know how anyone votes, at any time, anywhere, ever, and certainly no-one may demand such an answer with threats, ever.
I write now to ask that as the direct result of this disgraceful conduct you will have this person restrained from visiting the Regional Assembly since he is clearly unable to control himself and cannot conduct himself without anger and resentful aggression when things do not go his way.
With the continuing acts of disunity connected with this Group, the Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth, it will not be long, because of the repeating examples of their unacceptable behaviour, if we are concerned for the future of Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole, that they will be removed from the roll of Alcoholics Anonymous in toto, since they are unwilling, and clearly unable, to follow the precepts, guidelines, principles, practices and Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous in good faith.
Their Clancy worshipping overt fury and anger not the way we do things in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Disunity not our way.
Yours sincerely
Ken Grigor
6/06/08
News from Plymouth – a cautionary note for other Intergroups (eg West Kent and East Kent)
We have been sent a copy of the minutes of the 179th Meeting of Plymouth Intergroup, Morley Centre, Plymstock, Sunday April 13th 2008-06-03.
The contents of the minutes in themselves are not particularly remarkable – what is more interesting is the composition of this Intergroup (initials used to preserve anonymity.
Those present:
Intergroup Officers:
We have been sent a copy of the minutes of the 179th Meeting of Plymouth Intergroup, Morley Centre, Plymstock, Sunday April 13th 2008-06-03.
The contents of the minutes in themselves are not particularly remarkable – what is more interesting is the composition of this Intergroup (initials used to preserve anonymity.
Those present:
Intergroup Officers:
Name Group Position
JB Road to Recovery Chair
AT Road to Recovery Secretary
CS Road to Recovery Treasurer
RH Back to Basics ELO
IC Road to Recovery Probation Liaison
MM Joys of Recovery Convention Convenor
KE Road to Recovery Health Liaison Officer
BE Living Sober Region Rep
AJ Kingsbridge Share and Where to Find
AW Road to Recovery PI Officer
AP Road to Recovery Prison Liaison Officer
GSRs:
DW Freedom Group
CC Road to Recovery
TM Saltash
PW Living Sober
JJ Back to Basics (Friday & Sunday) – Stand-In GSR
CS Back to Basics (Wednesday)
PN Stoke Monday
JR University Meeting
T Joys of Recovery
AJB Lee Mill New Beginning
LD Kingsbridge (Temporary GSR)
Observers:
TA Road to Recovery
WP Road to Recovery
NK Road to Recovery
AK Road to Recovery
LD Lee Mill – A New Beginning
TG Road to Recovery
PY Road to Recovery
AH Road to Recovery
RB Road to Recovery
CD Road to Recovery
LL Road to Recovery
DB Road to Recovery
DS Joys of Recovery
JP Road to Recovery
After Apologies had been taken, “Preamble and Traditions were read and Electoral College” (as it is referred to in Plymouth Intergroup) “was taken”:
GSRs: 11
Intergroup Officers: 10
Total of 21
Simple Majority: 12
Two-Thirds Majority: 14
It should be pointed out at this stage that the local cult group for Plymouth goes by the name of “Road to Recovery”. It can be seen from the attendance list that whereas there is, as would be expected, one GSR for that group no less than 7 out of the 11 (according to our count) Intergroup officers are from Road to Recovery. Additionally of the 14 observers at the Intergroup meeting 12 were from that same group. This tactic of packing intergroup meetings (though no doubt presented as ‘enthusiastic participation’ on the part of the cult) has the effect of intimidating other visitors to Intergroup and placing pressure on some of the greener Intergroup officers to fall into line with the large contingent of cult members holding positions in that so-called ‘representative’ body. Indeed one of the cult observers present at the meeting mistook the meaning of the word ‘observer’ as in ‘onlooker’ and instead chose to interpret it as one who was there to make ‘observations’ – this he did taking the opportunity to criticise a non-cult member of Intergroup.
It can be seen that the Road to Recovery (according to the figures here) do not constitute a majority (either simple or 2/3rds) and therefore are unable to push through their own candidates as regional reps. South West Region has cottoned on to their tactic of infiltration and has succeeded in removing them from any kind of position at Region. The next goal will be to adopt the same tactic at Intergroup level and then hopefully remove this cult group from any participation in AA at any level (a cult group has been denied access to both Bournemouth and Poole Intergroups on the ground that they were “too controversial”). It has been reported that there is a growing awareness amongst the membership in the area of the destructive influence that this cult group is having on the reputation of AA and an increased willingness to take action to counter its influence. However, in the meantime, demonstrating their complete unwillingness to change, cult members continue to visit AA meetings in the area and “poach” newcomers. Additionally at the last South West Region meeting an attempt was made to intimidate a duly elected regional representative by a cult member who did not approve of his stance on one of the issues discussed at the meeting. We understand that an implied threat was made by the cult member to the representative; apparently the matter will be taken further.
Of course one possible solution to prevent the possibility of any one section of AA (or a cult) seeking to impose its will upon the rest is to abolish the voting rights of Intergroup officers. We have stated elsewhere that we believe that it is totally undemocratic to have Intergroup officers (who represent no one but themselves) having the same voting rights as GSRs (who are supposed to be representatives – not delegates - of their home group) who cast a vote REPRESENTING the views of their group – not themselves. As the situation stands at the moment Intergroup officers have effectively greater voting rights than individual members – a vote as an Intergroup officer as well as a vote as a group member. This means that one officer’s vote can wipe out the votes of an entire group of AA members – this is not democracy. The argument put forward that somehow a vote as an Intergroup officer is one of the “perks of the job” is entirely invalid; the reward is supposed to be the service itself – not the power that can be wielded. It would be reasonable for officers to make recommendations to Intergroup with respect to their particular areas of responsibility, to be allowed to carry out their day-to-day duties without undue interference from other groups or members but that any final decision about policy should be referred back to the groups and AA members to be debated and agreed upon before that officer is permitted to implement the policy – or to put it succinctly – “Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern”. It would seem that a number of Intergroup officers are of the opinion that they are not accountable to the membership and perhaps it is long overdue that they are reminded of this fact; Intergroup serves the groups and takes its direction via the GSRs from AA members – not the other way round.
The Fellas
DW Freedom Group
CC Road to Recovery
TM Saltash
PW Living Sober
JJ Back to Basics (Friday & Sunday) – Stand-In GSR
CS Back to Basics (Wednesday)
PN Stoke Monday
JR University Meeting
T Joys of Recovery
AJB Lee Mill New Beginning
LD Kingsbridge (Temporary GSR)
Observers:
TA Road to Recovery
WP Road to Recovery
NK Road to Recovery
AK Road to Recovery
LD Lee Mill – A New Beginning
TG Road to Recovery
PY Road to Recovery
AH Road to Recovery
RB Road to Recovery
CD Road to Recovery
LL Road to Recovery
DB Road to Recovery
DS Joys of Recovery
JP Road to Recovery
After Apologies had been taken, “Preamble and Traditions were read and Electoral College” (as it is referred to in Plymouth Intergroup) “was taken”:
GSRs: 11
Intergroup Officers: 10
Total of 21
Simple Majority: 12
Two-Thirds Majority: 14
It should be pointed out at this stage that the local cult group for Plymouth goes by the name of “Road to Recovery”. It can be seen from the attendance list that whereas there is, as would be expected, one GSR for that group no less than 7 out of the 11 (according to our count) Intergroup officers are from Road to Recovery. Additionally of the 14 observers at the Intergroup meeting 12 were from that same group. This tactic of packing intergroup meetings (though no doubt presented as ‘enthusiastic participation’ on the part of the cult) has the effect of intimidating other visitors to Intergroup and placing pressure on some of the greener Intergroup officers to fall into line with the large contingent of cult members holding positions in that so-called ‘representative’ body. Indeed one of the cult observers present at the meeting mistook the meaning of the word ‘observer’ as in ‘onlooker’ and instead chose to interpret it as one who was there to make ‘observations’ – this he did taking the opportunity to criticise a non-cult member of Intergroup.
It can be seen that the Road to Recovery (according to the figures here) do not constitute a majority (either simple or 2/3rds) and therefore are unable to push through their own candidates as regional reps. South West Region has cottoned on to their tactic of infiltration and has succeeded in removing them from any kind of position at Region. The next goal will be to adopt the same tactic at Intergroup level and then hopefully remove this cult group from any participation in AA at any level (a cult group has been denied access to both Bournemouth and Poole Intergroups on the ground that they were “too controversial”). It has been reported that there is a growing awareness amongst the membership in the area of the destructive influence that this cult group is having on the reputation of AA and an increased willingness to take action to counter its influence. However, in the meantime, demonstrating their complete unwillingness to change, cult members continue to visit AA meetings in the area and “poach” newcomers. Additionally at the last South West Region meeting an attempt was made to intimidate a duly elected regional representative by a cult member who did not approve of his stance on one of the issues discussed at the meeting. We understand that an implied threat was made by the cult member to the representative; apparently the matter will be taken further.
Of course one possible solution to prevent the possibility of any one section of AA (or a cult) seeking to impose its will upon the rest is to abolish the voting rights of Intergroup officers. We have stated elsewhere that we believe that it is totally undemocratic to have Intergroup officers (who represent no one but themselves) having the same voting rights as GSRs (who are supposed to be representatives – not delegates - of their home group) who cast a vote REPRESENTING the views of their group – not themselves. As the situation stands at the moment Intergroup officers have effectively greater voting rights than individual members – a vote as an Intergroup officer as well as a vote as a group member. This means that one officer’s vote can wipe out the votes of an entire group of AA members – this is not democracy. The argument put forward that somehow a vote as an Intergroup officer is one of the “perks of the job” is entirely invalid; the reward is supposed to be the service itself – not the power that can be wielded. It would be reasonable for officers to make recommendations to Intergroup with respect to their particular areas of responsibility, to be allowed to carry out their day-to-day duties without undue interference from other groups or members but that any final decision about policy should be referred back to the groups and AA members to be debated and agreed upon before that officer is permitted to implement the policy – or to put it succinctly – “Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern”. It would seem that a number of Intergroup officers are of the opinion that they are not accountable to the membership and perhaps it is long overdue that they are reminded of this fact; Intergroup serves the groups and takes its direction via the GSRs from AA members – not the other way round.
The Fellas
9/12/07
News from Poole (Dorset)
We’ve heard that the Roadies (cult) get lonely on a Monday night and finding the local mainstream AA meetings not to their tastes they head on down to the local CA meeting. The word is that the CA group started off as a NA group but the local NA organisation threw them out when the cult tried to move in. But hey presto – they overcame that problem and came over all CA. We’d love to hear a bit more about this one – gives a whole new meaning to the terms “cross addicted”
News from Poole (Dorset)
We’ve heard that the Roadies (cult) get lonely on a Monday night and finding the local mainstream AA meetings not to their tastes they head on down to the local CA meeting. The word is that the CA group started off as a NA group but the local NA organisation threw them out when the cult tried to move in. But hey presto – they overcame that problem and came over all CA. We’d love to hear a bit more about this one – gives a whole new meaning to the terms “cross addicted”
7/12/07
The Good Word
Just another little piece of info regarding the pointy headed ones – the word is that not content with spreading the Good Word to any AA member unfortunate enough to fall under their shadow they have been known to go into the conversion business in Al Anon as well. Now we all know how desperately those chaps need our help – as in fish and bicycles – but not so with our own home grown Taliban. Apparently it’s not just us (mainstream AA) that have been getting it so seriously wrong for decades – those poor fools in Al Anon are also on the path to damnation. So these generous fellows of Plymouth et al have been unselfishy - sorry unselfishly – offering, nay insisting, that their services be taken up so that the blind might see again. Now we ask you! Al Anon members with AA sponsors – doesn’t seem natural does it? But then in the fairy land world of the cult it’s all so obvious. We would suppose that there might be a slightly different perspective on the part of the average Al Anon member from the, dare we say, average AA member – perhaps a slight divergence of experience – maybe a minute variation in viewpoint between that of the habitual drunkard and that of the person on the receiving end of that condition. But such minor details as these will serve in no way to deter the pointy headed ones from their God given mission in life to save everyone –even those who don’t particularly want saving. The word is that some members of Al Anon weren’t so impressed by the offer and suggested that our little friends go elsewhere – which they did. Aaaah! A happy ending!!!
PS. We hear that the Pope is looking for a sponsor. You’ll find him in Vatican City.
The Good Word
Just another little piece of info regarding the pointy headed ones – the word is that not content with spreading the Good Word to any AA member unfortunate enough to fall under their shadow they have been known to go into the conversion business in Al Anon as well. Now we all know how desperately those chaps need our help – as in fish and bicycles – but not so with our own home grown Taliban. Apparently it’s not just us (mainstream AA) that have been getting it so seriously wrong for decades – those poor fools in Al Anon are also on the path to damnation. So these generous fellows of Plymouth et al have been unselfishy - sorry unselfishly – offering, nay insisting, that their services be taken up so that the blind might see again. Now we ask you! Al Anon members with AA sponsors – doesn’t seem natural does it? But then in the fairy land world of the cult it’s all so obvious. We would suppose that there might be a slightly different perspective on the part of the average Al Anon member from the, dare we say, average AA member – perhaps a slight divergence of experience – maybe a minute variation in viewpoint between that of the habitual drunkard and that of the person on the receiving end of that condition. But such minor details as these will serve in no way to deter the pointy headed ones from their God given mission in life to save everyone –even those who don’t particularly want saving. The word is that some members of Al Anon weren’t so impressed by the offer and suggested that our little friends go elsewhere – which they did. Aaaah! A happy ending!!!
PS. We hear that the Pope is looking for a sponsor. You’ll find him in Vatican City.
5/12/07
Some good news from the South West
Quote from e-mail contact:
"Hi , Just a note to tell you that at the South West region meeting on Sunday 2nd december the fellowship reclaimed its sanity. 2 Road to recovery plymouth members were nominated for service positions, Both were unsucsessfull. The only votes they got were from the 5 serving members from there home group. The rest of the assembly voted no. At the group concience meeting that followed the region meeting the "Roads" asked region w "what are we doing wrong and how can we get into service"?--- They were told!. None of this was a concerted effort or a stitch up. Simply the fellowship representing the 300 odd groups in the South West fairly."
See what you can achieve with a little bit of effort!
PS Don't be deceived by the apparent attack of humility on the part of the cult - they've tried the same tack in West Kent - just more camouflage - the same old same old!
Quote from e-mail contact:
"Hi , Just a note to tell you that at the South West region meeting on Sunday 2nd december the fellowship reclaimed its sanity. 2 Road to recovery plymouth members were nominated for service positions, Both were unsucsessfull. The only votes they got were from the 5 serving members from there home group. The rest of the assembly voted no. At the group concience meeting that followed the region meeting the "Roads" asked region w "what are we doing wrong and how can we get into service"?--- They were told!. None of this was a concerted effort or a stitch up. Simply the fellowship representing the 300 odd groups in the South West fairly."
See what you can achieve with a little bit of effort!
PS Don't be deceived by the apparent attack of humility on the part of the cult - they've tried the same tack in West Kent - just more camouflage - the same old same old!
16/10/07
Commentary on the Road to Recovery infiltration
This is a transcript of a letter addressed to “all who may have an interest with copies directly to both The Chairman of the South Western Region and to The General Secretary of Alcoholics Anonymous” and is dated April 24, 2001 (originals on file).
It is a commentary on the actions of the “Road to Recovery” Group (Plymouth) in preventing the author from “becoming Regional Secretary when invited, with no other proposed persons for the job.” We have decided to reproduce the letter in full for two reasons: firstly it is the personal account of a member of AA being subjected to the manipulative and pernicious tactics of the Visions cult and secondly, that it is indicative of their general strategy to subvert mainstream AA. It is particularly relevant to the Kent and North London areas since the very same techniques are being currently employed to undermine the Fellowship there. The report by Ken Grigor (we break his anonymity on his request) is a detailed record of events and we would ask our readers to examine carefully his testimony and take especial note of his observations and warnings.
To Whom It May Concern
April 24th, 2001
Dear Sirs,
Whomsoever you may be,
I write particularly with my friends and colleagues Eddie C and Dave M in mind, whose integrity has recently been questioned and subsequently challenged by those members of the Road to Recovery Group and their temporary cronies who have, by design, through gossip and the continuing and careful manipulation of malleable people, instituted a take-over of control over Alcoholics Anonymous Intergroup in our area, Plymouth City and surrounds, and now these few run the entire show.
With myself included, also insulted beyond acceptable limits, we three represent over sixty years of continuous unfettered sobriety, without ever the slightest suspicion of impropriety, indecency or alcohol in our lives interfering with the continuing business of Alcoholics Anonymous; that is, helping people into recovery from this dread illness, indeed helping many of those whose voices are raised against us this very day.
A fourth party, a Conference Delegate and yet another highly respected member of the fellowship, has also come under criticism from this group, withdrawing from involvement in the direction of their travel after being inveigled into participation.
The total, then is eighty years of continuous, contented sobriety – and this is just not good enough, and whilst years may not be the criteria upon which competent judgement can be placed, in this case these are the persons who did the work to bring matters to where they are today, their views and experiences the stuff of which AA is made.
This deviant group has branched out from London Chelsea World’s End Groups and the unregistered, different principles promulgated so many years ago, a malignant cancer generated by David B, now deceased, through the then splinter group led by Kevin R and Martin J, and with these policies, not approved by Alcoholics Anonymous through Conference, now extended to more than one group in this area, spearheaded by Wayne P and his compliant disciples, is causing more trouble than perhaps their efforts are worth.
Certainly to recently impugn four long-time sober members in such a fashion is despicable in the extreme and for this to be endured, endorsed and indeed encouraged by the Regional Assembly, in ignoring the lies told to them by members of this group of controllers at their Regional Meetings, is also a matter which remains unacceptable, and should be of concern to sober people.
The very act of such criticism, not based upon evidence of any misdemeanour, not, to my mind, the way things are properly done in Alcoholics Anonymous. Backbiting is for drinkers.
And so I write, since I have a right to be heard, if naught else under the auspices of the Twelve Concepts for World Service, Concept V, as adopted in 1962 following their presentation by Bill W., the Co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, and listed on the final pages of The AA Service Manual, and I will accordingly institute the proper procedures recommended by Alcoholics Anonymous following this rough outline today, an internal circular only.
What I have experienced and viewed over the last few years, and now witnessed more graphically in the past few months has appalled me, not only within the disgraceful conduct of my own local Intergroup in Plymouth, wholly manipulated by members of the Road to Recovery Group and their compliant angry followers, some of whose own behaviour requires much more close scrutiny within the true meaning of the word sobriety, through their cheating, lying and their gossip both within and outwith their errant, deviant circle, more recently publicly displayed in the appalling accusatory drivel read out at the most recent meeting of the Regional Assembly, written by the Treasurer of Plymouth Intergroup, Denis D, and further endorsed by the approval of those members of the hanging committee calling themselves “The Officers of Plymouth Intergroup” in the confusing and garbled minutes of their Extraordinary Special Meeting, where only the committed were invited.
None of this “Went back to the groups!”
The comment in these same minutes of “The Chairperson declined to attend” being but further evidence of the churlish nature of the witch-hunt team, which, if nothing else, at least publishes their pitiful anger and childish behaviour.
Everyone knows there is no need for the condemned to appear, just to be castigated and insulted by a lynch-mob.
The time to deal with matters of such nature is at the next legitimate, advised, dated and timed Intergroup Meeting, with the subject minuted and the information of these minutes distributed to all who may have business there, fifteen days beforehand.
It is not impossible that you are forgetting that whilst some small licence has been granted to Alcoholics Anonymous with respect to broad based guidance emanating from Conference, we have waived our right to govern our own affairs and that with the board of Alcoholics Anonymous now being elected Trustees, we are now both governed and controlled by the Charity Commission, which is an arm of Government, and that we have to abide by Charitable Law.
It might be mentioned, therefore, that whilst it is easy to off-load this process, saying that it will be dealt with under “Any other business” when of course this is to do what Alcoholics always do, abandon the direct need to solve the problem and run away from their responsibilities when confronted with the truth, or with something distasteful, such as at present, hoping that it will go away by itself, the normal alcoholic avoidance procedure.
Well, I am not prepared to do this.
I have been slighted, insulted, lied about and ignored. I have been gossiped about and had my integrity questioned before my peers, some of whom, certainly in those attending the Regional Assembly, know absolutely nothing about me other than through the gossip circulated within the Meeting, and on the same days outside the meeting room, and through telephone calls.
I note here that of those who are so friendly to my face in these meetings, that not one of them telephoned to me to say “Hello Ken, I hear there is a problem – how can I be of help to you?” – as indeed I recall saying to many of them at various times since they laid down the glass.
Perfectly normal, selfish, thoughtlessness.
Pure alcoholism if proof were needed.
You will also carefully note that throughout this affair I have not telephoned one of you to seek your favour for the proposal.
Not one.
Nor have I acquired or required any gossip from any of you.
The denials of involvement in any manipulations will be long, loud and strong, coming from the multitude, the chiefs, the seniors, as every ganging up against the individual, yet another Alcoholic trait, without the courage to speak their minds in favour when the vote looks to be against.
The chiefs and the outspoken will rule – and the day will go against me yet again.
But this is of no consequence.
It is a matter of complete indifference to me whether I was to have been appointed Regional Secretary, or not. I came because I was invited, and sitting through three Regional Meetings without saying a word, indeed against all the natural principles of common decency, without ever being offered the courtesy of indeed even being allowed or invited to say a word, other than with the curriculum vitae which I chose to write rather than present verbally, so giving everyone time to think about the matter, when all are speaking about me and when I do not know what is being said, should be sufficient evidence of my good faith in this matter.
I put my trust in Alcoholics Anonymous.
I was invited by the Chairman to stand, and did so.
Nothing more can be asked of me than to co-operate.
My conscience is clear.
You will note here also that I speak not of supposition, guesswork, conjecture or assumptions, but of facts, and I will be interested to hear of your responses, and listen carefully to your rationale and reasons for living in the present pool of denial that something is now awry, yet another basic alcoholic trait.
But in the cheating and conniving that went on from that first proposal, those who deny that there is anything wrong with Plymouth Intergroup suffer from blind, incestuous denial claptrap in the display of such anger, such resentment, and without a shred of proof of any wrongdoing by any of these four members so maligned, since all of this present mess is separately and severally combining into maligning all four in one way or another, are not far short of a drink, not a road to recovery.
….. for this is what causes it – no serenity, two-facedness, exclusivity, controlling others, manipulation and the awesome anger and resentment displayed by several members of this sect. The Road to Recovery Group of Plymouth, masquerading as the Representatives and Regional Representatives of Plymouth Intergroup and their collaborators, and which clearly also includes Members of the Board and Region who have been wholly taken in by their deceptions.
I am indeed honoured that so many people should go to so much trouble, over such a protracted period of time, to ensure that I was not appointed to this position and have yet to hear a good reason for it.
You see, I have the advantage over most of you in that there is not one living human being within or outwith the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, anywhere, ever, in Meeting, Group, Intergroup, Region or indeed either Conference or the Board, since the day I put down the glass, who can say that I have harmed them in any way.
Not one.
…… and with my earlier comment implying impeccable credentials, there has to be an explanation for the rejection of the application on the first day when presented, other than listening to the childish, lying and what is more, unsubstantiated objections of one group out of the perhaps hundred and fifty-odd in the South West Region, and their total purchase of this childish package of innuendo.
I recall that the Board Member could not look me in the eye following my disposal when I suggested that they (Region) had been “Taken to the cleaners” by the members of the Plymouth (Road to Recovery) Intergroup, where the sullen and curt response showed yet another vote against, and the why of such still not clear.
You have such very short memories.
In quoting this particular instance I am reminded that when appointing the Health person to Regional Health Officer at the end of a long, long list of “Things that I have done as Health Officer in Plymouth” as his curriculum vitae, he was appointed with hardly a show of hands on the spot. This is a person from amidst and favoured within this group from Plymouth.
On a second occasion, the Scotsman from the Torquay area was also appointed to the position of Alternate Conference Delegate in the same way.
I look upon this in the same way as the good for the goose must be good for the gander principle, and ask why?
How can you say you have not been bought and paid for when the facts belie this! One group out of the best part of a hundred and fifty groups, and you fell for it.
This is not the way I read the representation of democratic principles.
Should you fail to heed these aforementioned sober members, Eddie, Dave, Malcolm and myself, where perhaps I may have to stand alone to be prepared to invoke the concepts in the need to be heard on this subject, and so that their personal involvement in AA matters may not be put at risk because of my personal comments and this report, which is mine alone, then those reading this in Alcoholics Anonymous do so at their peril.
These are long-time sober members, not to be dismissed so casually.
…. And this is a report, not a complaint.
However, if I fail to present the matter perfectly then this may be construed as one of my defects, but I don’t screw around, lying, cheating, conniving, scheming, greedy, selfish, arrogant, conceited, proud, and display the appalling anger and resentment such as I have recently witnessed within my field of enterprise, and which is extensive, as many of you well know.
I do not have all the answers, but I certainly have some based upon my personal vast experience in the field of recovery from my alcoholism, and I am at least prepared to state the case. Then you have a choice whether once again to treat my plea with the normal contempt accorded the lone Alcoholic trying to correct an observed defect in the system, or you can come together and change the system back to its original plan, helping Alcoholics into sobriety by our labours and by our example, as proven so conclusively by the first hundred.
The example displayed to me in this last disgraceful episode is not my idea of the honour, integrity, calm, serenity and dignity I expect in Alcoholics Anonymous.
No wonder people go away- and, so very sadly, stay away.
I am advised also by people I whom I place absolute trust, since they saved my life. People of long standing sobriety, and not gossip but a report of facts, that Plymouth is not the only area where this malignant cancer grows and is nurtured by similar controllers, many of whom have spawned from the clever sponsorship manipulations of David B of Chelsea, now deceased, and his immediate disciples in our area, Kevin R and Martin J and those who broke away from the original cult to form the present deviant group who have been masterminded from the beginning by Wayne P and his henchmen, the Road to Recovery Group, now represented by the enforced combination of three groups within its midst, recently approved by Conference as the way to deal with growth, entitled multi-meeting groups.
I am indeed honoured that so many people should go to so much trouble, over such a protracted period of time, to ensure that I was not appointed to this position and have yet to hear a good reason for it.
You see, I have the advantage over most of you in that there is not one living human being within or outwith the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, anywhere, ever, in Meeting, Group, Intergroup, Region or indeed either Conference or the Board, since the day I put down the glass, who can say that I have harmed them in any way.
Not one.
…… and with my earlier comment implying impeccable credentials, there has to be an explanation for the rejection of the application on the first day when presented, other than listening to the childish, lying and what is more, unsubstantiated objections of one group out of the perhaps hundred and fifty-odd in the South West Region, and their total purchase of this childish package of innuendo.
I recall that the Board Member could not look me in the eye following my disposal when I suggested that they (Region) had been “Taken to the cleaners” by the members of the Plymouth (Road to Recovery) Intergroup, where the sullen and curt response showed yet another vote against, and the why of such still not clear.
You have such very short memories.
In quoting this particular instance I am reminded that when appointing the Health person to Regional Health Officer at the end of a long, long list of “Things that I have done as Health Officer in Plymouth” as his curriculum vitae, he was appointed with hardly a show of hands on the spot. This is a person from amidst and favoured within this group from Plymouth.
On a second occasion, the Scotsman from the Torquay area was also appointed to the position of Alternate Conference Delegate in the same way.
I look upon this in the same way as the good for the goose must be good for the gander principle, and ask why?
How can you say you have not been bought and paid for when the facts belie this! One group out of the best part of a hundred and fifty groups, and you fell for it.
This is not the way I read the representation of democratic principles.
Should you fail to heed these aforementioned sober members, Eddie, Dave, Malcolm and myself, where perhaps I may have to stand alone to be prepared to invoke the concepts in the need to be heard on this subject, and so that their personal involvement in AA matters may not be put at risk because of my personal comments and this report, which is mine alone, then those reading this in Alcoholics Anonymous do so at their peril.
These are long-time sober members, not to be dismissed so casually.
…. And this is a report, not a complaint.
However, if I fail to present the matter perfectly then this may be construed as one of my defects, but I don’t screw around, lying, cheating, conniving, scheming, greedy, selfish, arrogant, conceited, proud, and display the appalling anger and resentment such as I have recently witnessed within my field of enterprise, and which is extensive, as many of you well know.
I do not have all the answers, but I certainly have some based upon my personal vast experience in the field of recovery from my alcoholism, and I am at least prepared to state the case. Then you have a choice whether once again to treat my plea with the normal contempt accorded the lone Alcoholic trying to correct an observed defect in the system, or you can come together and change the system back to its original plan, helping Alcoholics into sobriety by our labours and by our example, as proven so conclusively by the first hundred.
The example displayed to me in this last disgraceful episode is not my idea of the honour, integrity, calm, serenity and dignity I expect in Alcoholics Anonymous.
No wonder people go away- and, so very sadly, stay away.
I am advised also by people I whom I place absolute trust, since they saved my life. People of long standing sobriety, and not gossip but a report of facts, that Plymouth is not the only area where this malignant cancer grows and is nurtured by similar controllers, many of whom have spawned from the clever sponsorship manipulations of David B of Chelsea, now deceased, and his immediate disciples in our area, Kevin R and Martin J and those who broke away from the original cult to form the present deviant group who have been masterminded from the beginning by Wayne P and his henchmen, the Road to Recovery Group, now represented by the enforced combination of three groups within its midst, recently approved by Conference as the way to deal with growth, entitled multi-meeting groups.
The autonomy of the group is now vested in a steering committee, the controllers of which I speak.
Whilst I am opposed to Multi-meeting groups in general, but because the matter is now AA approved policy, I accept the decision, even if I do not see them working very well.
What I do see happening in this new system, however, is the usurping of control by the powerful influence of a few members, mostly those who shout the loudest.
Those who overpower and shout others and the weaker down, preventing those who would otherwise have the opportunity of service in their individual group being deprived of the chance.
The whole to deep for me to comprehend, the programme of Alcoholics Anonymous bent into shapes I have not experienced before, except when I recall the Unions were at their strongest, and this is what is before me today.
The powerful turn up for the meetings, take the chairs and prevent the weaker voice being heard.
Standard Union procedure.
The whole to deep for me to comprehend, the programme of Alcoholics Anonymous bent into shapes I have not experienced before, except when I recall the Unions were at their strongest, and this is what is before me today.
The powerful turn up for the meetings, take the chairs and prevent the weaker voice being heard.
Standard Union procedure.
The weaker go away frightened.
These are not Alcoholics Anonymous principles.
I have never, in all my years in Alcoholics Anonymous, ever come across such absolute nonsense in a meeting, and watch a subject of concern to all of us swept under the carpet, by default and by running away, and this in a Regional Assembly too where one would think that sober and experienced opinion, whether and both diverse and well held, could continue with a subject, for or against being of little consequence, and fail to come to an acceptable conclusion.
Bless you for not appointing me.
I have never, in all my years in Alcoholics Anonymous, ever come across such absolute nonsense in a meeting, and watch a subject of concern to all of us swept under the carpet, by default and by running away, and this in a Regional Assembly too where one would think that sober and experienced opinion, whether and both diverse and well held, could continue with a subject, for or against being of little consequence, and fail to come to an acceptable conclusion.
Bless you for not appointing me.
I could not live amidst such duplicity and people-pleasing.
I have a voice and I will be heard, for or against, and then I will await the result of the discussion and abide by the decision. Not so those who would have their way at any cost, as is happening at this very time.
And you are sending some of these people to Conference ……
Goodness, gracious me …..!!!
All who have taken part in this recent fiasco, engendered initially by an elected member of the Regional Assembly, the Chairman, requesting an otherwise well respected and long-time sober, competent member to stand for the position of Secretary of Region, and well qualified by experience to do it, should look yet once again at their part in this affair.
The Representative of Plymouth Intergroup lied to you at Region, and you knew it, and you swept it under the table.
I recall that Clifford, the Board member said “It is not our problem” – what a farce, and you at Region murmured and all just weakly crumbled.
Of course it is a Regional problem – when you have been lied to, when deceit is in your midst.
I have a voice and I will be heard, for or against, and then I will await the result of the discussion and abide by the decision. Not so those who would have their way at any cost, as is happening at this very time.
And you are sending some of these people to Conference ……
Goodness, gracious me …..!!!
All who have taken part in this recent fiasco, engendered initially by an elected member of the Regional Assembly, the Chairman, requesting an otherwise well respected and long-time sober, competent member to stand for the position of Secretary of Region, and well qualified by experience to do it, should look yet once again at their part in this affair.
The Representative of Plymouth Intergroup lied to you at Region, and you knew it, and you swept it under the table.
I recall that Clifford, the Board member said “It is not our problem” – what a farce, and you at Region murmured and all just weakly crumbled.
Of course it is a Regional problem – when you have been lied to, when deceit is in your midst.
Where then are the sober members who speak out about not condoning such behaviour?
As a visitor I could say nothing, not being invited so to do by the Chairman, so I speak now.
As a visitor I could say nothing, not being invited so to do by the Chairman, so I speak now.
What a disgraceful thing to do, run away.
How you could sleep with that one I cannot conceive.
How can Alcoholics Anonymous survive when you all run away.
Leave the Lady in play, of course, who has been appointed, for I am sure she comes in good faith herself, and hopefully in good faith from Poole Intergroup and most decidedly well supported with their especial letter of commendation, but look at the deception other than this, if indeed you can.
I know not of telephone calls between Plymouth and Poole, but I am brought to much suspicion with the unacceptable behaviour of the Road to Recovery Group in Plymouth, and I would not be surprised.
Leave the Lady in play, of course, who has been appointed, for I am sure she comes in good faith herself, and hopefully in good faith from Poole Intergroup and most decidedly well supported with their especial letter of commendation, but look at the deception other than this, if indeed you can.
I know not of telephone calls between Plymouth and Poole, but I am brought to much suspicion with the unacceptable behaviour of the Road to Recovery Group in Plymouth, and I would not be surprised.
Their conduct now so predictable.
When we “Go back to the Groups” – everything is discarded. The plan presented destroyed, always.
At the date of the initial presentation of my curriculum vitae I had not one vote against me in Poole or Bournemouth to my knowledge, nor any person proposed in opposition to my appointment, nor surely with a perfectly sober service and conduct record could a reason be found for not approving a sound and satisfactory on-the-day presentation and proposal.
I expect a few to vote against me for my known and published views on married men screwing around in the fellowship, sexual impropriety, cheating on the social, ponces selling their wares in meetings, thirteenth stepping particularly by those who say they have not been drinking for a long time, idle layabout bums telling people what to do and how to live their lives in supposed sobriety, drug addicts in AA meetings, enforced sponsorship and the nit-picking of words in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous to manipulate and change the simple course towards recovery clearly and specifically laid down by the founding members, when all that has really and truly changed since the writing of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, is the date.
Yet the entire Assembly of The South West Region believed this group of people, not even a tenth of a quarter of one percent of the entire area covered, The Road to Recovery Group representing themselves as Plymouth Intergroup, without consulting with me, the principal, the proven sober member with a strong recommendation from sober people of my competence to do the job.
At the date of the initial presentation of my curriculum vitae I had not one vote against me in Poole or Bournemouth to my knowledge, nor any person proposed in opposition to my appointment, nor surely with a perfectly sober service and conduct record could a reason be found for not approving a sound and satisfactory on-the-day presentation and proposal.
I expect a few to vote against me for my known and published views on married men screwing around in the fellowship, sexual impropriety, cheating on the social, ponces selling their wares in meetings, thirteenth stepping particularly by those who say they have not been drinking for a long time, idle layabout bums telling people what to do and how to live their lives in supposed sobriety, drug addicts in AA meetings, enforced sponsorship and the nit-picking of words in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous to manipulate and change the simple course towards recovery clearly and specifically laid down by the founding members, when all that has really and truly changed since the writing of the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, is the date.
Yet the entire Assembly of The South West Region believed this group of people, not even a tenth of a quarter of one percent of the entire area covered, The Road to Recovery Group representing themselves as Plymouth Intergroup, without consulting with me, the principal, the proven sober member with a strong recommendation from sober people of my competence to do the job.
Listening only to the powerful voices of a few people with whom I disagree.
Surely this cannot be right?
Surely this cannot be right?
So, indeed, you must all look at your own conscience for your part in this fiasco. Check your denial factor also when doing so.
I note that one of the objections to my appointment, taking it “Back to the groups” and so on with the objections, the usual manipulative switch-off, repetitive and boring yet again to have to listen to, was that I was not at that moment an attending member of Region, yet I see that during the later discussion on the forthcoming vacancy for Regional Treasurer, The South West Regional Assembly as a group, as a whole unit, were quite prepared then to juggle things around to have an Accountant from the Eastern Area invited and organised into such a position so that he can be appointed in the fullness of time to the position of Treasurer, the timing and recommendation of this nicely choreographed by the outgoing Treasurer, and this also without a vote, without the opinion of the majority being taken or heard, without a discussion, when on the day there could conceivably have been found a perfectly happy, competent member able to undertake the task, and who would have benefited greatly from the excitement of an invitation at least, if not necessarily the eventual appointment, had a little discussion taken place.
This already without the consent of Person, Group or Intergroup before appointment at Region. So much for the autonomy of all of these people and groups.
I note that one of the objections to my appointment, taking it “Back to the groups” and so on with the objections, the usual manipulative switch-off, repetitive and boring yet again to have to listen to, was that I was not at that moment an attending member of Region, yet I see that during the later discussion on the forthcoming vacancy for Regional Treasurer, The South West Regional Assembly as a group, as a whole unit, were quite prepared then to juggle things around to have an Accountant from the Eastern Area invited and organised into such a position so that he can be appointed in the fullness of time to the position of Treasurer, the timing and recommendation of this nicely choreographed by the outgoing Treasurer, and this also without a vote, without the opinion of the majority being taken or heard, without a discussion, when on the day there could conceivably have been found a perfectly happy, competent member able to undertake the task, and who would have benefited greatly from the excitement of an invitation at least, if not necessarily the eventual appointment, had a little discussion taken place.
This already without the consent of Person, Group or Intergroup before appointment at Region. So much for the autonomy of all of these people and groups.
Manipulation again, you see, but of a seeming different kind.
It does not take much for a simple In Out Balance Account to be prepared. Almost anyone can do it. This is not Double Entry Book-keeping, a cull of Assets and Auditing for a Trial Balance, followed by Audited, formal Accounts being presented, but just a few pounds in and out and a record kept by a trusted servant.
It does not take much for a simple In Out Balance Account to be prepared. Almost anyone can do it. This is not Double Entry Book-keeping, a cull of Assets and Auditing for a Trial Balance, followed by Audited, formal Accounts being presented, but just a few pounds in and out and a record kept by a trusted servant.
As I said, almost anyone can do it.
Playing the game of the “Most suited” for one – explain the “Not most suited” for the other?
The temptation to make this note short and crisp and to the point is high, but the facts require further definition.
The reason that I was not a Regional Representative at the time of being proposed and put forward by the Chairman of Region for the appointment, is that when I was appointed as a Regional Representative by Plymouth Intergroup at a properly constituted meeting of the Assembly, that is elected to the position by a vote of my peers by a count of eight votes to one, and where on the day it had regrettably been necessary for me to tender my apologies for my absence through contractual business commitments in Dunstable in Bedfordshire, the objections from these same people allowed this to be cancelled (surprise, surprise by the “Back to the Groups” method) and a reverse decision manipulated and rearranged at the next Meeting of Plymouth Intergroup.
Playing the game of the “Most suited” for one – explain the “Not most suited” for the other?
The temptation to make this note short and crisp and to the point is high, but the facts require further definition.
The reason that I was not a Regional Representative at the time of being proposed and put forward by the Chairman of Region for the appointment, is that when I was appointed as a Regional Representative by Plymouth Intergroup at a properly constituted meeting of the Assembly, that is elected to the position by a vote of my peers by a count of eight votes to one, and where on the day it had regrettably been necessary for me to tender my apologies for my absence through contractual business commitments in Dunstable in Bedfordshire, the objections from these same people allowed this to be cancelled (surprise, surprise by the “Back to the Groups” method) and a reverse decision manipulated and rearranged at the next Meeting of Plymouth Intergroup.
No wonder the Chairman became disillusioned with these people.
The Lone voice of Alan the hairdresser on my behalf, outraged at this connivance and clear breach of the appointment procedures, and in my absence, was shouted down and the contrived reverse voting established.
The Lone voice of Alan the hairdresser on my behalf, outraged at this connivance and clear breach of the appointment procedures, and in my absence, was shouted down and the contrived reverse voting established.
It is called cheating in any other field.
Apparently it is called normal in Plymouth Intergroup, and, unfortunately this process is apparently also acceptable at Region.
Seemingly this cheating is not to be considered a Regional problem.
Consideration of this problem, because it is a problem, laid aside by Region under the old excuse of the group autonomy.
I have to tell you that if you lie to me your autonomy is not high on my list of priorities.
Consideration of this problem, because it is a problem, laid aside by Region under the old excuse of the group autonomy.
I have to tell you that if you lie to me your autonomy is not high on my list of priorities.
You will apologise and you will either retract your comment, as I have ever promised to do myself should it happen, or you will live with it.
I have been taught to apologise for my behaviour when I have momentarily lost sight or control of it, as I am wont to do, if not necessarily so often these days.
The conduct of these meetings is already reported by others, and was the stated concern of both Eddie and Dave, in which Dave in particular has been criticised for his offer of help, a competence based upon his extensive experience in the field of endeavour towards helping people into recovery within the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, and a long time sober and equally respected member.
Malcolm’s involvement is in being now castigated for withdrawing his name from an appalling condemnation he was inveigled into earlier agreeing to.
Indeed, as Prison Sponsor, Dave needs no further advertising to example the outstanding success of his negotiating and mediating skills, rejected and scoffed at by the Road to Recovery Group and their cronies, pretending to represent Plymouth Intergroup.
All who have dealings with the prison service know this to be an essential qualification in such a difficult field of endeavour to help those who are incarcerated amidst staff who are squeezed for time and manpower, with considerations of safety almost always uppermost in their minds.
To have such capability thrown out by the Road to Recovery Group and the gentleman’s qualifications dismissed out of hand, himself maligned and criticised for his offer of help, quoting interference as the excuse, in this clearly difficult situation, the decisions taken dominated by the overwhelming voting powers of the Road to Recovery Group in Plymouth Intergroup Meetings, which along with their selected cronies now ensure all decisions being swayed along in their direction and favour, a situation which will remain intact and unchallenged until the eventual and inevitable alcoholic in-fighting break-up, of course.
I will not have a combined eighty years of continuous, committed sobriety, all spent in continuous service in the fellowship, criticised and ignored in this way, without comment.
To my mind this is a National problem.
It may even be an International problem, for all I know.
Assuredly it is not a problem in which Region in the voice of one man can say “Not our problem”, Board member or otherwise.
What I do know that it is my problem, and it is here, and it is now.
What is more – it had better be dealt with – and not soon – but now, by people with courage and a real conviction of the effectiveness of the programme of Alcoholics Anonymous as it exists in the paperwork, the literature which has been developed over the years and passed down to us by those whose experience has brought us here today……..
…. and, I might say, through Conference, and not through The Road to Recovery Group.
Lip service will not do …..
….. will not be enough.
We have once again to ensure that our conduct towards the punter out of the bus station, madame up on the hill and Joe the international financier is the same, offering help with love, care and attention to their every need in their pain of addiction to a substance over which they have no control, alcohol.
It was not long ago that I met one of the most famous musicians in the world and I did not recognise him, but talked to him as I would any other sober man, referring him to my very first meeting with a much, much less favoured musician who had trawled the corridors of Shenley Psychiatric Hospital looking for people with a drinking problem whom he might be able to help by introducing them to Alcoholics Anonymous.
It was of little consequence in offering my help if he travelled through the Westcountry, as with many others, a bed for the night, supper, or just guidance and/or a lift to a meeting, or the loan of my caravan to keep the costs down, to find a multi-millionaire famous public figure gone from my sight without recognising him.
The conduct of these meetings is already reported by others, and was the stated concern of both Eddie and Dave, in which Dave in particular has been criticised for his offer of help, a competence based upon his extensive experience in the field of endeavour towards helping people into recovery within the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, and a long time sober and equally respected member.
Malcolm’s involvement is in being now castigated for withdrawing his name from an appalling condemnation he was inveigled into earlier agreeing to.
Indeed, as Prison Sponsor, Dave needs no further advertising to example the outstanding success of his negotiating and mediating skills, rejected and scoffed at by the Road to Recovery Group and their cronies, pretending to represent Plymouth Intergroup.
All who have dealings with the prison service know this to be an essential qualification in such a difficult field of endeavour to help those who are incarcerated amidst staff who are squeezed for time and manpower, with considerations of safety almost always uppermost in their minds.
To have such capability thrown out by the Road to Recovery Group and the gentleman’s qualifications dismissed out of hand, himself maligned and criticised for his offer of help, quoting interference as the excuse, in this clearly difficult situation, the decisions taken dominated by the overwhelming voting powers of the Road to Recovery Group in Plymouth Intergroup Meetings, which along with their selected cronies now ensure all decisions being swayed along in their direction and favour, a situation which will remain intact and unchallenged until the eventual and inevitable alcoholic in-fighting break-up, of course.
I will not have a combined eighty years of continuous, committed sobriety, all spent in continuous service in the fellowship, criticised and ignored in this way, without comment.
To my mind this is a National problem.
It may even be an International problem, for all I know.
Assuredly it is not a problem in which Region in the voice of one man can say “Not our problem”, Board member or otherwise.
What I do know that it is my problem, and it is here, and it is now.
What is more – it had better be dealt with – and not soon – but now, by people with courage and a real conviction of the effectiveness of the programme of Alcoholics Anonymous as it exists in the paperwork, the literature which has been developed over the years and passed down to us by those whose experience has brought us here today……..
…. and, I might say, through Conference, and not through The Road to Recovery Group.
Lip service will not do …..
….. will not be enough.
We have once again to ensure that our conduct towards the punter out of the bus station, madame up on the hill and Joe the international financier is the same, offering help with love, care and attention to their every need in their pain of addiction to a substance over which they have no control, alcohol.
It was not long ago that I met one of the most famous musicians in the world and I did not recognise him, but talked to him as I would any other sober man, referring him to my very first meeting with a much, much less favoured musician who had trawled the corridors of Shenley Psychiatric Hospital looking for people with a drinking problem whom he might be able to help by introducing them to Alcoholics Anonymous.
It was of little consequence in offering my help if he travelled through the Westcountry, as with many others, a bed for the night, supper, or just guidance and/or a lift to a meeting, or the loan of my caravan to keep the costs down, to find a multi-millionaire famous public figure gone from my sight without recognising him.
For sure, he is an alcoholic- and therefore he can have the bed or the caravan anyway. Rich or poor is of no consequence to me.
Freddie C inviting me to a meeting on that Friday in February 1971 did not then stop my drinking but nonetheless he saved my life, along with others who continued this insistent kindness in later years, and I never forget.
Never.
So, you were on the day cheated out of a perfectly competent and time-served Secretary by lies, innuendo and misrepresentation of the facts by a few people whose sect, The Road to Recovery Group, and whose conduct and behaviour I take exception to within the confines, principles, practices, traditions and guidelines of Alcoholics Anonymous, with their hidden anger and resentment about my outspoken criticism of their deviant methods, their new agenda for Alcoholics to my mind not helpful to the alcoholic in pain, their interference in the lives of not only the individual within the fellowship, but individuals within the sister fellowship of Al-Anon Family Groups, stretching far beyond the brief of Alcoholics Anonymous, as I read it.
Whilst I am an observer in Alcoholics Anonymous I am also a participant, and these things touch me to.
Never.
So, you were on the day cheated out of a perfectly competent and time-served Secretary by lies, innuendo and misrepresentation of the facts by a few people whose sect, The Road to Recovery Group, and whose conduct and behaviour I take exception to within the confines, principles, practices, traditions and guidelines of Alcoholics Anonymous, with their hidden anger and resentment about my outspoken criticism of their deviant methods, their new agenda for Alcoholics to my mind not helpful to the alcoholic in pain, their interference in the lives of not only the individual within the fellowship, but individuals within the sister fellowship of Al-Anon Family Groups, stretching far beyond the brief of Alcoholics Anonymous, as I read it.
Whilst I am an observer in Alcoholics Anonymous I am also a participant, and these things touch me to.
As a participant I have a vote.
You have recently denied me this vote.
I object.
I am now going to take action, and this sketch will outline the direction I intend
it should take.
Your combined objections will be noted.
When someone is sharing how wonderful it is at my evening meeting, wherever it may be, and when I return to my home I find his wife or partner is in tears on the telephone to my wife, because the telephone is in the area where we jointly sit, there is something seriously wrong, and whilst I do not interfere in any way in these matters, I step back with much suspicion.
There is much of this duplicity in the fellowship, wherever I sit my seat in a meeting. Wonderful share often, but in the list I have placed earlier, cheating, lying, conniving, stealing and screwing around.
Not my scene.
In the newer member it is forgivable, for doubtless he is doing his best under our guidance to recover, but just slipping back a bit from time to time. Perhaps not yet just catching on.
In the older member – it is bullshit.
….. and, in my opinion, and from the evidence that I have gathered over the years in Alcoholics Anonymous, of this there is far, far, far too much.
This is what I have been listening to lately.
Group, Intergroup, Region and elsewhere in many of the people I meet.
It is my intention to take no further part in any association with Plymouth Intergroup until they display the sobriety of which they so loudly, aggressively and vociferously speak, but are unable to display.
When someone is sharing how wonderful it is at my evening meeting, wherever it may be, and when I return to my home I find his wife or partner is in tears on the telephone to my wife, because the telephone is in the area where we jointly sit, there is something seriously wrong, and whilst I do not interfere in any way in these matters, I step back with much suspicion.
There is much of this duplicity in the fellowship, wherever I sit my seat in a meeting. Wonderful share often, but in the list I have placed earlier, cheating, lying, conniving, stealing and screwing around.
Not my scene.
In the newer member it is forgivable, for doubtless he is doing his best under our guidance to recover, but just slipping back a bit from time to time. Perhaps not yet just catching on.
In the older member – it is bullshit.
….. and, in my opinion, and from the evidence that I have gathered over the years in Alcoholics Anonymous, of this there is far, far, far too much.
This is what I have been listening to lately.
Group, Intergroup, Region and elsewhere in many of the people I meet.
It is my intention to take no further part in any association with Plymouth Intergroup until they display the sobriety of which they so loudly, aggressively and vociferously speak, but are unable to display.
The Regional Assembly, if they have the courage to ignore those who would dismiss my letter out of hand, and whose names come easily to mind, may well see a way to look at their own conduct in this matter.
I do not need people like that as my friends in Alcoholics Anonymous.
I need them as trusted servants.
Trust I say sometimes – but how?
Far too much anger.
Far, far too many resentments.
Far too much aggression as described in Malcolm’s recent detraction.
Far too manipulative and controlling for my liking.
Far too heavy-handed with people and sadly ……..
Far, far far too close to a drink, for me.
Bill W. is quoted in a document I read many, many years ago as saying that “AA will be destroyed from within” – not “May” or “Might” – but “Will”
You are not only watching it now – you are a part of it.
However, Bill W. has one sure-fired supporter here, for you see I have had the advantage of reading the literature and of remaining permanently sober with having listened to and put into practice the wide, wide ranging experiences of many, many sober people from all over the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, and several other countries, and helping people from over twenty-two and a half years by the sound principles reported to me.
So, when all else fails.
When it all falls apart.
When it is wrecked with attitudes and preconceptions, twisted thinking …
When it cannot be separated from drugs and gossip and such abominable, deviant behaviour as I have recently witnessed ….
I am just going to open an AA meeting, with a big book and a happy, contented sobriety, and await the arrival of people who need help with a drinking problem yet again……
…… as I have ever done in the past.
Yours sincerely,
Ken Grigor, Decorator
Copies of a number of documents will be provided in support of my argument in the fullness of time, when the matter is placed before the Board of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I do not need people like that as my friends in Alcoholics Anonymous.
I need them as trusted servants.
Trust I say sometimes – but how?
Far too much anger.
Far, far too many resentments.
Far too much aggression as described in Malcolm’s recent detraction.
Far too manipulative and controlling for my liking.
Far too heavy-handed with people and sadly ……..
Far, far far too close to a drink, for me.
Bill W. is quoted in a document I read many, many years ago as saying that “AA will be destroyed from within” – not “May” or “Might” – but “Will”
You are not only watching it now – you are a part of it.
However, Bill W. has one sure-fired supporter here, for you see I have had the advantage of reading the literature and of remaining permanently sober with having listened to and put into practice the wide, wide ranging experiences of many, many sober people from all over the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland, and several other countries, and helping people from over twenty-two and a half years by the sound principles reported to me.
So, when all else fails.
When it all falls apart.
When it is wrecked with attitudes and preconceptions, twisted thinking …
When it cannot be separated from drugs and gossip and such abominable, deviant behaviour as I have recently witnessed ….
I am just going to open an AA meeting, with a big book and a happy, contented sobriety, and await the arrival of people who need help with a drinking problem yet again……
…… as I have ever done in the past.
Yours sincerely,
Ken Grigor, Decorator
Copies of a number of documents will be provided in support of my argument in the fullness of time, when the matter is placed before the Board of Alcoholics Anonymous.
